Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants

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Thread: Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants

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    Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants

    Once again the anti's predictions of blood flowing in the street failed to materialize.

    State Sen. A. Donald McEachin, D-Henrico, who was a strong opponent of the law, said it's not clear what conclusions can be drawn from just a year's worth of data.

    "Most folks obey the law, and that's a good thing," said McEachin, who remains staunchly opposed. "But I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that just like drinking and driving doesn't mix, guns and drinking don't mix."


    Some people refuse to admit they were wrong. McEachin is an idiot and will never admit he was wrong.




    Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants


    The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2% from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011.

    Virginia's bars and restaurants did not turn into shooting galleries as some had feared during the first year of a new state law that allows patrons with permits to carry concealed guns into alcohol-serving businesses, a Richmond Times-Dispatch analysis found.

    The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

    And overall, the crimes that occurred during the law's first year were relatively minor, and few of the incidents appeared to involve gun owners with concealed-carry permits, the analysis found.

    A total of 145 reported crimes with guns occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11, or eight fewer than the 153 incidents in fiscal 2009-10. State police track all murders, non-negligent manslaughters, aggravated assaults, forcible sex crimes and robberies in more than two dozen categories, including "bars/nightclubs" and "restaurants."

    "The numbers basically just confirm what we've said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law," said Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, which strongly lobbied for the law's change that made Virginia one of 43 states to allow concealed guns in restaurants that serve alcohol. "It's sort of a big yawn. So from my point of view, none of this is surprising."

    "Keep in mind," Van Cleave added, "what the other side was saying that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on."

    State Sen. A. Donald McEachin, D-Henrico, who was a strong opponent of the law, said it's not clear what conclusions can be drawn from just a year's worth of data.

    "Most folks obey the law, and that's a good thing," said McEachin, who remains staunchly opposed. "But I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that just like drinking and driving doesn't mix, guns and drinking don't mix."


    David Rittgers, an attorney and decorated former Army special forces officer who is now a legal policy analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute, said the growing number of states that are adopting concealed-carry measures like Virginia's have seen no appreciable rise and in some cases a decline in violent crime.

    "The worst that you can say about these laws is that they are statistically value neutral" in terms of impacting the crime rate, Rittgers said.

    Rittgers said states that have enacted such concealed-carry legislation "even when they've done some relatively restrictive provisions upfront" have relaxed those over time "because of the lack of violent incidents that might be connected with persons carrying concealed (weapons) with a permit."


    Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants | Richmond Times-Dispatch
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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting!!! I can't wait to forward this to Dan Casey at the Roanoke Times. I've been going round and round with him on this and other gun issues for years and he will never admit when he is wrong either.
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    Your right. I've had a few e-mail conversations with Dan myself. He'll simple say something to the effect of: "There were 2 incidents, so the law was wrong!"
    I quite even trying to discuss it with him. Decided there was no sense in trying to reason with a half wit!!
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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Once again the anti's predictions of blood flowing in the street failed to materialize.

    State Sen. A. Donald McEachin, D-Henrico, who was a strong opponent of the law, said it's not clear what conclusions can be drawn from just a year's worth of data.

    "Most folks obey the law, and that's a good thing," said McEachin, who remains staunchly opposed. "But I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that just like drinking and driving doesn't mix, guns and drinking don't mix."


    Some people refuse to admit they were wrong. McEachin is an idiot and will never admit he was wrong...
    Obviously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do a Senator's job...

    The Sentor is confused about the inappropriateness of his example. Drunk drivers are people with low self-control & a likely substance abuse issue. Citizen's carrying legally generally do not have impulse control issues.

    It's the people, stupid!!
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    Ex Member Array Bombsaway's Avatar
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    Same here in Tennessee. When our restaurant carry law went into effect last year, all the op-ed writers and bloggers predicted blood in the streets and barroom/wild west shootouts, none of which has come to pass. Not a single one.

    But, have any of those same bloggers and op-ed writers retracted any of their original claims? No, and they have all been strangely and noticeably silent on the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Once again the anti's predictions of blood flowing in the street failed to materialize.

    State Sen. A. Donald McEachin, D-Henrico, who was a strong opponent of the law, said it's not clear what conclusions can be drawn from just a year's worth of data.

    "Most folks obey the law, and that's a good thing," said McEachin, who remains staunchly opposed. "But I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that just like drinking and driving doesn't mix, guns and drinking don't mix."

    He must have no self control if he thinks going to a bar/restaurant that serves alcohol means you are only there for one reason and you must drink.
    "I got a lot of problems with you people!" - Frank Costanza

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    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    A total of 145 reported crimes with guns occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11, or eight fewer than the 153 incidents in fiscal 2009-10.
    The difference between 145 and 153 is something to gloat about? That sounds like a DC's murder stats press release. "Hey the murder rate is down 6%. Only 145 people were killed this year instead of 153."


    And overall, the crimes that occurred during the law's first year were relatively minor, and few of the incidents appeared to involve gun owners with concealed-carry permits, the analysis found.
    Maybe CCWers simply don't hang out in places where gun violence would not be out of the norm? You know, the 4 Stupids?


    "But I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that just like drinking and driving doesn't mix, guns and drinking don't mix."
    This is a red herring statement because the law does not allow CCWers to carry and drink in bars/restaurants. The law is not mixing guns and drinking.

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    Member Array Gforty's Avatar
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    Which side of the fence was the Richmond Times-Dispatch on before the law was enacted?

    Ohio just passed Restaurant Carry, no thanks to the Columbus Dispatch and most other big-city rags. If there's no "blood in the bars" a year from now, I expect they'll be quiet too.

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    Blood not flowing in the streets or bars yet??

    If you can read this, thank a teacher. Because it's in English, thank a vet

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    My take on it is that the gun haters actually hope that something bad will happen so they can say "See? We told you so!!!".

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkhmAsylm View Post
    Obviously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do a Senator's job...

    The Sentor is confused about the inappropriateness of his example. Drunk drivers are people with low self-control & a likely substance abuse issue. Citizen's carrying legally generally do not have impulse control issues.

    It's the people, stupid!!
    There are a lot of young drinkers that get DUI's,they don't think they have had enough to be over the limit,usually thats all it takes for them to get a cab or do the designated driver thing in the future.Most people that carry a Concealed handgun IMHO tend to be more mature and responsible realising the severe consequences of a mishandled firearm and in most cases won't drink while armed

    Trying to change an Anti's mind is like fighting with an idiot ,they ignore the facts an d believe that no civilised human should ever need a gun,they are evil and only Police should have them,if they get rid of guns then the world will become peaceful,despite all the major crimes in Countries that outright ban civilian possession of firearms,or incarcerate you if you injure or kill somebody in self defense
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    Most the big (and smaller city) newspapers in Ohio were against the passage of the bill allowing guns in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol, and most of them predicted blood baths in the streets. The law won't be implemented till the end of September (has to wait 90 days after passage), but I bet it will be somewhat similar to Virginia's experience in September 2012 after it has been a year here in Ohio. The streets won't be running red and there won't be countless shootouts in the bars and restaurants! The liberal media have never been known for their application of logic and reason to any issue---doesn't sell papers or gain viewers like sensationalism!
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    The Richmond Times Dispatch is probably the most conservative newspaper in the state and, while I do not remember exactly; my guess is that their editors were, at worst, neutral on the law change last year. The Roanoke Times, however, is unabashedly liberal/progressive and never met a gun owner they didn't trust (although they do print a lot of articles on local hunting). The Roanoke paper was one which predicted the "blood in the streets" scenario regarding the law change.

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    mkh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    The difference between 145 and 153 is something to gloat about? That sounds like a DC's murder stats press release. "Hey the murder rate is down 6%. Only 145 people were killed this year instead of 153."
    The 8 fewer incidents is not the point. The point is they said it would go up as a bloodbath was predicted. They weer acting like the number would double or something and when you compare 145 to 306 it is substantial.

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    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkh View Post
    The 8 fewer incidents is not the point. The point is they said it would go up as a bloodbath was predicted. They weer acting like the number would double or something and when you compare 145 to 306 it is substantial.
    The fact that the number of gun crimes at restuarnts and bars went down should not be a surprise to anybody.

    - Crime statistics have been trending down for a decade.
    - With the less than stellar economy people aren't going out to eat as much as before.
    - People don't go out as much at night as before anyway.

    For anybody to have bet their money that crime in bars was going to go up in the year since CCW in restaurants went into effect, are also the same people who would invest in tulip bulbs.

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