G & S Gunshows not gun friendly - Page 2

G & S Gunshows not gun friendly

This is a discussion on G & S Gunshows not gun friendly within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Nope Sorry Mike 1 You Said: "So no matter how careful we are things can happen." When we are as careful as we must always ...

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Thread: G & S Gunshows not gun friendly

  1. #16
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    Nope Sorry Mike 1
    You Said:
    "So no matter how careful we are things can happen."

    When we are as careful as we must always be then things don't ever happen.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array fotomaker57's Avatar
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    You are absolutely correct QKShooter
    Mike
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    Thomas Jefferson

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    I don't see it as any different than "cold range" rules.

    Most places having a loaded CCW on your hip doesn't matter. You won't be handling it in the normal course of things.

    But on a range, or at a gunshow, where weapon handling and manipulation is a high probability I can see requiring everyone to go cold.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  4. #19
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    SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY........

    Most of us are safe when it comes to handling firearms. BUT there are a lot of UNSAFE people that go to gun shows. All of us know people we would NOT trust with a loaded weapon. Can they still go to a gunshow or should they not be allowed to attend.

    I go to all the gun shows in Richmond, Va & on more than one occasion some nimrod has used me as a target to sight in a rifle or handgun. I get swept by a lot of muzzles at these shows by people who don't have a clue.

    Some of these people are probably gun owners & some of them could be concealed permit holders. If someone swepts me when I'm close I will either politely say something to them or push the muzzle away from me & have ducked on more than one occasion. One instance a guy several rows away from me picked up a long gun with scope & was pointing it at me , that time I actually hollered at him! It caused everybody to look, but he damn sure got the point.

    The point I'm trying to make here is, gun shows aren't trying to deprive you of your 2A rights. THEY ARE SELLING GUNS, if they were trying to be anti-gun do you think they would be selling GUNS?

    There have been NDs at several shows, some have been from weapons that the dealer had laying out & some have been from the lookie-loos. All the operators are trying to do is have a safe show, without ANYBODY getting hurt....ESPECIALLY ME! So if I have to unload to attend, NO BIG DEAL. I still have the ability to reload quickly should the need arise.

    At these shows I see all sorts of people handling firearms, most are safe but others aren't. If you are the operator how do you decide who is safe & who isn't? Just because someone has a concealed permit doesn't mean they know how to be safe with a firearm.

    Look at all the goodies on sale at a gun show. If you have a loaded concealed weapon on you & you find the next 'perfect' holster to add to your holster drawer, what then? Do you or the dealer or the other patrons want you handling a loaded weapon to try out in a new holster?

    If someone were dumb enough to try to rob or to try shooting up the place, do you want DOZENS of carriers pulling loaded weapons & firing away? ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU REALIZE THE SHOOTING SKILLS OF MOST PEOPLE ARE ABYSSMAL!

    One user's signature is applicable here:

    'there is only two people I trust with a gun & you aren't one of them'
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Yup, several years back I used to sell some at the gunshows on the gulf coast. The promoters have their hands tied. To rent the facility you have to have insurance. The insurance companies don't like lawsuits and losses. So no loaded or able to be loaded (as in tied)weapons, no loaded clips or loose ammo. Despite that rule there was still a ND at a show, fortunately no one was hit. Someone just had to try and reload his gun for carry on the show floor and obviously was lacking in training and/or sense and it just "went off"!

    Of course, while strictly against the rules many of the dealers where carrying deep cover. One idiot tried to rob a dealer during break down after the show in the parking lot. Very bad idea!
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    I've worked a lot of gun shows locally, as a volunteer for our state gun rights org.

    Early on (I've been shooting for 30 years) nobody cared if you CCW'd. Then there were a few NDs at gun shows (nobody hurt that I know, but that was just dumb luck), society became more anti-gun and insurance companies got antsy.

    Next (~8 years ago) the shows were forced to demand that attendees disarm (as described above) upon entering the shows, but they still allowed vendors to carry (open or concealed). Still more NDs occurred!

    Nowadays I see that even vendors aren't allowed to carry at shows. In fact one of the show promoters used to carry in a shoulder holster (visibly) during the show and even he's been seen with an empty shoulder holster!

    Like a prior post, at one show I worked some years ago, I had a guy pickup a rifle (~100' from us) and sight in on myself and a buddy I was talking to. As luck would have it the on-duty officer (someone I knew) came by and I told him to have a not-friendly chat with said ******* and warn him that the next time he did that to me, he'd be seeing a loaded handgun (Mine) in his sights pointed back at him! Said ******* put down the rifle and went on his way.

    Concealed carry isn't really a problem, but when someone wants to try a holster with the gun, buy grips, etc. there is potential for NDs if dealing with a loaded gun. The average gun show patron is NOT adequately trained in gun handling safety, so least common denominator does dictate that gun shows ban loaded guns . . . sadly.

    A slight aside, the Big E show location in W. Springfield, MA also has a facility rule that bans all ammo, powder, and primers from their buildings. Thus at the shows they ban the one or two ammo dealers to a tent in the parking lot and the selection of ammo or components sucks at said shows!

  7. #22
    Member Array floridaguy911's Avatar
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    yep, pretty standard.
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  8. #23
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    Some years ago, I talked to the organizer of a gun show once that had the same policy. He stated he hated to do it, but there had been two events at a recent show that caused a problem. In both cases it was someone considering a private transaction and pulled their Concealed loaded weapon to show for either possible trade. In both cases they thought they unloaded the gun completely, and had a AD. (One was a revolver, and he was not sure what the other one was). It was for this reason they started the policy of no concealed, or loaded guns. Hence the checking at the doors, and the tie placed through the cylinders/chambers of the weapons.

    In his opinion it was to protect everyone from the Stupid. Although those of us on this board are smart, not everyone in the world is as smart as us!
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnimalKracker
    I went to a gunshow today put on by G & S Gunshows, there was a big sign no concealed guns, no loaded clips.
    The only way to change this trend, given the reality it's a private function on private property, is: to not attend, not give one cent. Were that to happen at every event, where not one seller made a cent off anything, the reality would become clear. Until then, it's merely a matter of degrees.

    I don't frequent any business that is anti-U.S. Constitution, and I make it plain to the store's manager as to why I'm turning around and taking my money with me to a competitor.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #25
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    At the Winston Salem gunshow last month there was a ND. CCW permits are like DL's, just because the holder obtains one, is no indication of skill/safety with a firearm. I go to the gunshow to relax, look at handguns, and smoke and joke with like minded people. I don't want to have to watch my back at the show. Thats what all the off duty guy's are getting paid to do. YMMV. Regards 18DAI.

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array AnimalKracker's Avatar
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    Most of the gunshows that I've been to, tend to attract more of the hunters and general public than the CCW. And I do agree, I have seen a few around that I was glad I knew the gun was unloaded in their hands. Like I said, maybe it was a human failing that most of us have PRIDE. I felt like it was putting into question my ability to safely handle a firearm. And again I understand they don't know me and can not judge me. So the rule covers everyone. But I still don't have to be crazy about the idea.

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array AnimalKracker's Avatar
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    I understand the process, how many LEO's and others that carry in their profession do we have here? Now let's say they can't enter into the show while packing. I'm sure you'll hear "but I have so many years or training, I did so and so to become skillful in handling a firearm. " That is how I felt, same way as I do not take packing a deadly weapon lightly.

  13. #28
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    If the majority of gun shows around the country are like the ones I go to in Abilene, Texas, having everyone disarm is a pretty good thing.

    In the past, the shows in Abilene have not not required unloading for a CHL holder.... after several things I have witnessed in the past, I wish the disarm policy was in effect !

    Never before in my life, and I mean never, have I ever seen a more motley looking crowd gathered in one place. The word 'redneck' is an understatement to describe some of these folks. If I were still an LEO, I would love to be running background checks on quite a few people in the building.... but these days, they would probably call that profiling.

    I watched one man pull a loaded handgun out of a concealed holster so he could see if his gun would fit another holster, etc., and he was pulling his weapon out with his finger on the trigger !

    Saw another fellow trying to put a set of grips on a 1911.... and there was a clip inserted at the time !

    Saw another man pull out his 9mm Glock and clip on IWB holster, put a new SOB holster on his belt, then try to put his weapon in a new, unfamiliar holster behind his back... with a clip inserted in the Glock.

    This one is not a loaded gun incident, but one vendor had quite a few dummy handguns fitted with Crimson Trace grips. I sat back and watched as some true idiots and some young kids tried out the lasers.... by aiming them at other people in the room ! Don't know about y'all, but a red dot in the center of my chest is going to get my attention in a big hurry......

    In each case, I did not hesitate to let the booth vendor know what what was going on. Also with each incident, they were usually busy with another customer.

    As has been previously stated, the trend to disarm folks at gun shows seems to be the 'lowest common denominator' theory, and the 'lowest common' seems to be getting worse all the time.

    There's another gun show in Abilene this coming weekend. If I feel up to it, I may go watch people again.......
    Last edited by DaveT; August 6th, 2006 at 11:50 AM.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18DAI
    CCW permits are like DL's, just because the holder obtains one, is no indication of skill/safety with a firearm. I don't want to have to watch my back at the show. Thats what all the off duty guy's are getting paid to do. YMMV.
    It varies quite a lot from that sentiment, actually.

    This is the sort of thing anti's hang their hats on ... the belief that the paid security folks will get the job done, thus I need not be concerned. Frankly, the mere existence of badges on the premises doesn't equate with presence when needed. I carry because I am unwilling to have blind faith in a sluggish system to protect me as protection becomes necessary, which can happen on the instant at a time least conducive to rapid, effective response by the badges. In fact, it's exactly that sort of situation that a criminal is searching for.

    In the end, one's fears over the possible presence of some relatively-untrained concealed carry license holders doesn't justify disarming everyone else to suit.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 6th, 2006 at 11:41 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm
    The only way to change this trend, given the reality it's a private function on private property, is: to not attend, not give one cent. Were that to happen at every event, where not one seller made a cent off anything, the reality would become clear. Until then, it's merely a matter of degrees.

    I don't frequent any business that is anti-U.S. Constitution, and I make it plain to the store's manager as to why I'm turning around and taking my money with me to a competitor.
    I agree with you when it comes to other type of establishments like restuarants & stores that sell OTHER types of goods.I don't want to do business with them either.

    As to the gunshow issue, let me ask you a question.....Do you shoot at a gun range? If so, don't they have rules about unloaded & safetying you weapon before anybody goes down range? Using your logic doesn't that mean they are anti-2A as well, since you must unload before ANYBODY goes down range? The same thing happens at IPSC & IDPA shoots. Between rounds the competitors are UNLOADED & SAFED! So are they anti-2A as well.

    I'll say it again...it is about safety, that's it...nothing more.

    If they were ANTI-GUN they wouldn't be selling GUNS! Other establishments that ban guns from their premises are doing so because they are anti gun & don't even want your weapon inside the property.

    At least gun shows still allow you to take your weapon in, just without bullets in it.....big deal..... I still carry loaded magazines in my pocket & can reload quickly IF the need were to arise.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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