G & S Gunshows not gun friendly

This is a discussion on G & S Gunshows not gun friendly within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by goawayfarm Do you shoot at a gun range? If so, don't they have rules about unloaded & safetying you weapon before anybody ...

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Thread: G & S Gunshows not gun friendly

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm
    Do you shoot at a gun range? If so, don't they have rules about unloaded & safetying you weapon before anybody goes down range?
    Of course, with the guns being used on the range, where muzzle control is in question and being unloaded is most definitely a reasonable safety step.

    Using your logic doesn't that mean they are anti-2A as well, since you must unload before ANYBODY goes down range?
    I have a hard time seeing this as serious. You are twisting the remarks for an unreasonable leap. You're suggesting that common-sense safety steps done on a range with the guns being actively shot on the range also apply to a holstered, concealed carry weapon that's not "in play." One is a safety consideration, while the other would be effective disarmament. Two completely different things.

    At least gun shows still allow you to take your weapon in, just without bullets in it.....big deal...
    This does indeed mean it's no longer a weapon. It's a gun with ammunition stored separately (other pocket). It's tactical disarmament. It's not about safety, as a holstered, concealed weapon won't mystically jump out of any holster I know of ... and any criminal worth his salt will simply slap in a high-cap magazine and then go about his business, blithely ignoring any edicts. I'm sure any would-be criminals truly appreciate the tactical advantage being provided, here. Think tactical realities. Minimal impact on safety; huge impact on inability of citizens to protect themselves.

    This, in a nutshell, is the anti- argument: that a higher purpose trumps rights to self defense, if it can only be smoothly couched in terms of safety, benefitting the larger society, etc., regardless of whether the net impact is what the restriction is supposedly designed to do. Hence, my claim of "anti-".

    To quote from a previous thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm
    Anybody remember the old saying... "An armed society is a polite society" There is a lot of truth in it.
    Absolutely. Particularly at places with enhanced risks (ie, greater access, greater numbers of people, drawing those with an altered mindset). Like gun shows, for example.

    Apologies to AnimalKracker for the hijacking. Didn't mean to do so, but claims needed vetting.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 6th, 2006 at 03:38 PM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array AnimalKracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm

    If they were ANTI-GUN they wouldn't be selling GUNS! Other establishments that ban guns from their premises are doing so because they are anti gun & don't even want your weapon inside the property.

    At least gun shows still allow you to take your weapon in, just without bullets in it.....big deal..... I still carry loaded magazines in my pocket & can reload quickly IF the need were to arise.
    They did not want my carry weapon on me. There was no mention of unload , put the clips in your pocket. It was sorry no concealed weapons,and loaded clips inside. As stated I understand their reasons for safety and insurance purpose. But there was no we'll work with you, either.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array NY27's Avatar
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    I just walk right in and ignore any of these signs. There are no metal detectors. I'm not going to be unarmed anywhere, especially somewhere where I know that there are a lot of firearms and ammo laying around.
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  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY27
    I just walk right in and ignore any of these signs. There are no metal detectors. I'm not going to be unarmed anywhere, especially somewhere where I know that there are a lot of firearms and ammo laying around.
    I'm sure that a lot of people do just that.

    TTBOMK, they aren't strip-searching attendees yet or making them go thru metal detectors, so it is only an "honor system" at this point.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm
    I have a hard time seeing this as serious. You are twisting the remarks for an unreasonable leap. You're suggesting that common-sense safety steps done on a range with the guns being actively shot on the range also apply to a holstered, concealed carry weapon that's not "in play." One is a safety consideration, while the other would be effective disarmament. Two completely different things.
    I guess we are just going to disagree on this issue.

    I do see it the same way as a shooting range, because guns will be "in play". Patrons who come to shows, bring weapons to sell & they will be handling them & people will be handling the ones being sold by dealers.

    Let's go with your position, let everybody with a permit in WITHOUT unloading. The others who don't have a permit are going to cry foul & rightly so. They should be allowed to have their guns loaded as well, right? They need self protection too, right?

    Then say, said permit holder finds a new wiz bang, golly-gee, gotta-have, new fangled accessory & pulls out his loaded gun & the next sound you hear is bang. Maybe you & I would not do it, but a lot of people would & have done it.

    As far as a miscriant coming in & trying something stupid, there would be a lot of people who suddenly have loaded guns pointing at him. He would be greatly out numbered & I daresay my responce would be to find cover in case they all decide to shoot .

    There are places where a BG would target, but I don't think a gun show full of people would be it. Now, after a show while dealers are loading or after hours while nobody's there....that would be the time to worry.

    I would be more nervous of accidents(NDs) occurring if patrons weren't told to unload. Honestly, would you feel safer if everybody (most of whom you don't know)were allowed in LOADED?

    The places I would be worried about BGs w/guns are other establishments that don't allow the gun at all.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't like being unloaded during a gunshow, but I do understand it. In a perfect world I would have mine loaded & NOBODY else could have their's loaded. I'd also be filthy rich & I'd buy at least one of ever firearm made (well, maybe 2 of each, one to shoot the other to collect)....but so much for wishful thinking.....
    Last edited by goawayfarm; August 6th, 2006 at 08:19 PM.
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  7. #36
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    For the folks that said they'd ignore it...

    I'm new to all this, and have only been to one gun show, where my focus was my CCW class. It was run by the Southern Classic gun & knife show folks, and not only did they have a sign up, but there was a uniformed LEO at the door asking every single person that entered "do you have any ammunition or weapons on you?"

    Now that I have my CCW, I'm not about to lie to a LEO and get in hot water. That's at these shows of course, others may not have a LEO at the door.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by symbiont7
    For the folks that said they'd ignore it...

    I'm new to all this, and have only been to one gun show, where my focus was my CCW class. It was run by the Southern Classic gun & knife show folks, and not only did they have a sign up, but there was a uniformed LEO at the door asking every single person that entered "do you have any ammunition or weapons on you?"

    Now that I have my CCW, I'm not about to lie to a LEO and get in hot water. That's at these shows of course, others may not have a LEO at the door.
    If the sign is a official notification, I do not pass. If a LEO asks, I do not lie. But a brown paper note taped up, I don't worry about.

  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    I've been to shows in MA, NH and FL. In some cases there is a LEO asking and in others it is the show promoter's staff. Could also be a mix of both.

  10. #39
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    ccw9mm - ND's by numbskulls at gunshows are something else that anti's hang their hat on. In order to keep having gunshows, it's a small price to pay to leave your CCW unloaded IMHO. YMMV. Regards 18DAI.

  11. #40
    Distinguished Member Array AnimalKracker's Avatar
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    I would think it would just as easy to post signs with Unload guns before entering,or secure all concealed firearms. Any guns I'm going in with to trade or sale will be secured with zip tie or some other means. My concealed carry gun is just that concealed, I did not bring it to sell, trade, or to be admired by others. It stays concealed.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnimalKracker
    Any guns I'm going in with to trade or sale will be secured with zip tie or some other means. My concealed carry gun ... stays concealed.
    Exactly so. Anything affecting the carry piece is simply disarmament and a ruse. The mere suspicion of dolts in a group doesn't justify it.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  13. #42
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    I've already posted what our local shows do and the bottom line is it's their show. It's no different than a restaurant or store that has a "no guns allowed" sign in the window. If I don't like their rules and won't/can't abide by them, I'm free not to go into the place. If you want to chance carrying loaded anyway and get caught, you'll be asked to unload or leave and if you don't, you'll be arrested for trespassing.

    BTW, I hope nobody takes this personally, but I have to laugh when I hear people saying they feel the need to carry for their protection at a gun show. You've got to be kidding!! Do you know of ANYONE who is going to start trouble at an event with thousands of guns on display and with hundreds (thousands?) of people there who know how to use them - not to mention that there are usually quite a few LEO's at these shows as well. It's like a story I read once (maybe it's an urban myth, but I still like it) where a very unlucky crook decided to rob a restaurant where a police department was having a party for an officer who'd been promoted to captain. The BG rushes in with a cheap revolver and says this is a stick up. Upon hearing this, 30 uniformed LEO's all stand and pull their guns and the BG, seeing the error of his ways, immediately drops the gun and says it was just a joke for the party guests.

    If there is one place that ANYONE should feel safe not having to carry a loaded weapon on them, I'd think it would be a gunshow!
    Last edited by rachilders; August 7th, 2006 at 03:13 AM.
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  14. #43
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    ... thousands of guns on display and with hundreds (thousands?) of people there who know how to use them - not to mention that there are usually quite a few LEO's at these shows as well.
    Carry: ALWAYS
    The latter, like you, is my sentiment. (Not taking anything personally, BTW.)

    A gun isn't a firearm until it's got ammo. Anyone who thinks otherwise is smoking something. The net effect is you end up with hundreds (thousands?) of unarmed guns: not firearms. And, frankly, someone else's goal when SHTF isn't necessarily your safety ... it's his/her own.

    It's foolish to believe every criminal is a rank idiot, particularly in advance of the facts regarding the one criminal that's in your face. Consider this: that a gun show consists not only of the indoor show itself, with LEO's and everybody in mutual reverie, but also the restrooms, the hallways, the parking lot and surrounding area. In a place with advertised disarmament, you've got a "dinner bell" ringing as to a criminal's likelihood of finding resistance ... yes, even at a gun show. Do yourself a favor, sometime, and call up the local police district's crime map, to get a feel for the frequency of certain violent crimes in the area. It's a surprising exercise. Such locations aren't often in the best part of town.

    At a "show" you've now got thousands of sheep waiting in line. Got to relieve yourself? Where is that, exactly? Got to head back to the car for your jacket? How far, unarmed, is the car? Coming back to the parking lot for your car and (hopefully) the firearm you stowed there (unattended, with criminals who know the disarmament edict at the show, I might add)? If some perceptive criminal took advantage there, you'd do what, exactly?

    The point is: unarmed is foolish for the citizen; it's a "draw" for the criminal; and it's an unnecessary step when speaking of peoples' concealed carry weapons ... as these aren't on sale, in "play," or however you'd like to say it. The net effect is: you're disarmed, which flatly contradicts the always-armed methodology of keeping control over one's own safety. 2A: the right shall not be infringed. If anyone understands this and the realities, it should be the 2A-cognizant fools running such gatherings.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 7th, 2006 at 10:41 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array AnimalKracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    I've already posted what our local shows do and the bottom line is it's their show. It's no different than a restaurant or store that has a "no guns allowed" sign in the window. If I don't like their rules and won't/can't abide by them, I'm free not to go into the place. If you want to chance carrying loaded anyway and get caught, you'll be asked to unload or leave and if you don't, you'll be arrested for trespassing.

    BTW, I hope nobody takes this personally, but I have to laugh when I hear people saying they feel the need to carry for their protection at a gun show. You've got to be kidding!! Do you know of ANYONE who is going to start trouble at an event with thousands of guns on display and with hundreds (thousands?) of people there who know how to use them - not to mention that there are usually quite a few LEO's at these shows as well. It's like a story I read once (maybe it's an urban myth, but I still like it) where a very unlucky crook decided to rob a restaurant where a police department was having a party for an officer who'd been promoted to captain. The BG rushes in with a cheap revolver and says this is a stick up. Upon hearing this, 30 uniformed LEO's all stand and pull their guns and the BG, seeing the error of his ways, immediately drops the gun and says it was just a joke for the party guests.

    If there is one place that ANYONE should feel safe not having to carry a loaded weapon on them, I'd think it would be a gunshow!
    I do not feel unsecure at a gunshow, and as stated I'll unload and secure it, if asked to. But I was not given that option, it was stated that they did not want concealed guns ,and or loaded clips there. I had to go out and put my carry gun in a locked unattended truck. It has a good loud alarm system on it, I still don't like that. It not about feeling threatened at the gunshow. It's about them not wanting a CCW there.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    I don't feel it's too much to ask that all guns be unloaded in the display area, especially since you have no idea what the training and experience level of those in attendance are. At our local shows, I'm much more afraid of an AD than being robbed. You can enter the building locked and loaded, you can leave locked and loaded and everywhere else is monitored by security and the police. I can still carry my guns and ammo with me while at the show, though not together. I suppose if trouble did start at a gun show here I'd be able to reload my weapon if I felt the need. However, my personal view is if there's trouble, I'm going to go someplace else ASAP! My last wish (because it just may be) is to be caught in the middle of a shootout at a gun show!

    I don't know about the shows in your location, but around here, they're at a convention center and restrooms are on both the main display floor and in the lobby by the entry way (at least two LEO's there and show personnel are always present). The only place you are not allowed to be loaded and carrying is on the display floor. As soon as you leave the main floor, you are allowed to reload/rearm if you wish. If your shows are run differently, you'll have to decide for yourself what you want to do. Besides, if gun shows are the magnet for BG's some say they are and just a great big buffet for those BG's, with us sheeple driving our own selves to the slaughter, I don't want to be there, whether I'm armed or not.

    BTW, what would you do if you went to a gun shop and there was a sign saying no loaded guns allowed inside; unload before entering, enter loaded anyway hoping the owner doesn't notice your weapon and ask to check it, go in and complain about the stores policy, or leave and go elsewhere?
    Last edited by rachilders; August 7th, 2006 at 01:07 PM.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

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