G & S Gunshows not gun friendly - Page 4

G & S Gunshows not gun friendly

This is a discussion on G & S Gunshows not gun friendly within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by rachilders BTW, what would you do if you went to a gun shop and there was a sign saying no loaded guns ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    BTW, what would you do if you went to a gun shop and there was a sign saying no loaded guns allowed inside... leave and go elsewhere?
    Go elsewhere, every time. The one or two I frequent are on a very short list. They both don't attempt to disarm.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.


  2. #47
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnimalKracker
    I do not feel unsecure at a gunshow, and as stated I'll unload and secure it, if asked to. But I was not given that option, it was stated that they did not want concealed guns ,and or loaded clips there. I had to go out and put my carry gun in a locked unattended truck. It has a good loud alarm system on it, I still don't like that. It not about feeling threatened at the gunshow. It's about them not wanting a CCW there.
    If they don't allowed CC at your local gun shows, do they allow open carry? If so, either carry your weapon in a case or wear it in an exposed holster. I'll guess the shows in your area are like most others I've attended. People bring guns inside for sale, trade, looking for parts or for appraisal don't they? There are also people buying guns and carrying them with them until they leave, so a gun in open view is not going to draw attention. Unless the people at the show do pat down searches of customers looking for hidden weapons and ammo, keep the magazine/ammo out of sight and when you leave, go back to CC mode. If nothing else, have an empty magazine and before you leave, buy a box of bullets and reload when you leave. We can always use extra ammo, can't we!
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    People bring guns inside for sale, trade, looking for parts or for appraisal don't they?
    Anyone failing to do exactly this for arms to be sold/appraised should be arrested, IMO. It's this that causes the risk, not the concealed units, which (by definition) remain concealed.

    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    If they don't allowed CC at your local gun shows, do they allow open carry?
    Good point. I have yet to see a show that specifies no carry excepting openly. I'll look/ask, next time.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #49
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm
    Go elsewhere, every time. The one or two I frequent are on a very short list. They both don't attempt to disarm.
    If I may ask, why? Is it to prove a point? Are you trying to say if it can't be your way it's the highway?

    Remember, I mentioned a LOADED gun. Do you really feel it's too dangerous for your own safety to remove a guns magazine as you enter the building and reload it again as you leave? Do you only feel safe if you're always locked and loaded, even in a gun shop you may regularly visit?

    Have you considered the owners point of view. I'm sure he's constantly in fear that anyone walking into his shop is not there to shop but to rob him. Unless we're already friends and/or do regular business, I'd try to make things as comfortable for both myself and the shop owner as possible by telling him if I do have a weapon with me and that it is unloaded as he requested. It usually goes a long way in building mutual trust and a good business/working relationship, at least in my experience. Of course, if you feel you MUST be armed and in condition orange at all times, it's your choice and your right to do so, but I wouldn't complain about people who don't feel the same because it's THEIR right to feel that way. I believe you already have done the best thing for you if you don't agree with that opinion... vote with your feet and go elsewhere.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    If I may ask, why? Is it to prove a point? Are you trying to say if it can't be your way it's the highway?
    Be serious. Also, consider that some choose to be realistic. I'm armed where I go. Period. Else, I don't go there. It works every time. It makes no point other than the point: keeping me safer.

    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    Do you only feel safe if you're always locked and loaded, even in a gun shop you may regularly visit?
    Do you believe it's any less simple for a criminal to walk into that same store, whether I frequent it or not? If anything, a gun store has a far greater number of valuable items readily accessible (under glass) than the corner candy store. Using this guideline, one would be hard-pressed to find it safer in the gun shop. (I'd be willing to bet that statistics would prove out this theory.)

    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    Have you considered the owners point of view. I'm sure he's constantly in fear that anyone walking into his shop is not there to shop but to rob him.
    Private property rights are highly important. So is the right to self-defense. And if one's to be given up to support the other, I won't support that establishment. A "win" for the property owner, as one more firearm's presence has been thwarted; and a "win" for me, as I am decidedly not being disarmed. It's not a boycott, nor making a point. It's simply keeping me and mine safe ... always. The owner can keep his/her point of view in the less-secure environment that will result. And I'm not speaking of mere perspective or impressions here. I am speaking of actual security. The owner's fear shouldn't be his/her chief concern: the resulting real change in security should be, IMO. For me and mine, I'll retain control over that element.

    I suppose if one were to twist it hard enough, the only "point" to be made would be the adjustment of the owner's long-term valuation on the "win" of chasing away legally-armed citizens. Likely, it won't be quite the benefit he/she had in mind, given the "dinner bell" nature of such a sign/policy that lowers the risk for robbers that keep their eyes open for just such opportunities. But, that's not for me to worry. I'll leave that to the owner. May he/she escape the more-likely result.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 7th, 2006 at 03:49 PM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #51
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm
    Anyone failing to do exactly this for arms to be sold/appraised should be arrested, IMO. It's this that causes the risk, not the concealed units, which (by definition) remain concealed.
    Just my personal opinion, but I'm more worried about the gun I CAN'T see than the one I can.... at least I know it's there. Besides, what's going to ensure the "concealed" gun stays that way?
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    What's going to ensure the "concealed" guns stay that way?
    Not one more voluntary guideline, that's for certain. It's simply not realistic to believe that voluntary admission at the gate thwarts criminals, nor that it thwarts all carriers (honest CHL holders or not). Short of a detection screen that keeps 100% of weapons out, in the end only the training and honor of the attendees will maintain safety. Just as, in the end, the only thing that keeps criminals at bay is the likelihood of getting caught and/or perforated. The reality? Such edicts reduce the likelihood of a criminal meeting resistance.

    Of course, if you feel you MUST be armed and in condition orange at all times, it's your choice and your right to do so, but I wouldn't complain about people who don't feel the same because it's THEIR right to feel that way.
    No complaints. Folks can do what they choose. As will I, when it impacts my ability to protect my family.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 7th, 2006 at 04:27 PM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #53
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    You sound like someone who's had a few bad experiences or know persons who did and assumes the worst in every situation and everyone. I suppose if I were in that position I might feel the same way since we're all products of our environment and experiences. If that's not the case, I wonder what has given you such a pessimistic outlook on life and people.

    Maybe I've been lucky in my almost 55 years (in three more weeks) of living all over the USA. Whether it's been north, south, east, west, big city or small town, I've only known one person who's ever been involved in a confrontation (besides myself once in Wash, DC almost 30 years ago) where they were assaulted, in fear of bodily harm or even witnessed such an event. That was my younger brother who was shot while sitting at a red light one evening. The bullet entered the passenger side window and struck him in the shoulder. The shooter was never found. In this one case, it wouldn't have mattered whether my brother was carrying or not (he was FWIW) since it was dark and the shooter was not visible when the incident happened. He lived, but still has shoulder problems after 20 years.

    Aside from the above, I don't know of anyone who knows anyone who can say they have been involved in a "situation" aside from some LEO's in the course of their jobs. Come to think of it, I don't know one LEO (I know several and have a number of family members who work/worked in law enforcement) that's ever had to actually fire their weapon in defense of their lives. BTW, I don't count the fact my home was burglarized 15 years ago while I was out of town by a neighbors teenage son as an incident since nobody was home.

    Maybe I'm the exception, but I view my chances of having to use my gun to defend myself VERY small. I have it in case I DO need it, like my car and home owners insurance, but I realistically never expect to use. Maybe if I look harder, I can find some places where I will, but that would defeat my purpose of trying to avoid the need to defend myself unless absolutely necessary.

    Anyway, we all have to do what we think is the best for us and ours. I can't fault someone for trying to be ready at all times when there are so many others who aren't prepared to defend themselves any of the time.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    You sound like someone who's had a few bad experiences or know persons who did ...
    Yes, on both accounts. A couple of them, bad.

    Nah. I don't assume the worst nor see the worst in every situation. Underprepared might be okay; underestimating might work. But one thing I won't ever do again is to come unprepared and failing to see a situation, particularly when it's common and oft-overlooked simply because of that. Can't explain it any better.

    For those that have never had to cope with bad situations, kudos. May such people remain untouched.

    ... what has given you such a pessimistic outlook on life and people.
    I have an excellent outlook. I'll get through the day, outing, gathering or event without trouble, if at all possible. However, the outlook is a realistic one that's based on what I actually see happening and have experienced, yes. That outlook appreciates that there are indeed bad people actively scoping/seeking, as we sit relatively comfortably having this exchange on an internet forum. I also am realistic enough to appreciate that in an average cafe or store of 50 people there are likely to be two or three that don't wish the clientele well. Sprinkle in a bit of darkness, parking too far from the light, or a lack of situational awareness ... All it takes is a little bit, these days. The utter brazenness and sheer degree of violence in today's attacks simply astounds.

    I can't cover the extremes. I won't, as that will detract from my quality of life and infringe on my family's ability to enjoy our lives. That I won't accept. But, a bit of preparation and keeping my eyes open goes a surprisingly long way. It doesn't inhibit me one whit. There are lots of alternative places to do business, alternative locales for my "play" time with friends/family. Less-risky times to engage in certain things. It's merely a matter of opening one's eyes to the choices, then choosing smartly. It may appear that the scope of my awareness and preparations are beyond what's needed, but until I know what's needed I'll instead rely on this measure. Based on what I've seen unfold right in front of me, it's minimum preparedness. Works for me/mine.

    Maybe I'm the exception, but I view my chances of having to use my gun to defend myself VERY small.
    So do I. A firearm is the last "ring" of defense, to be sure. Most folks will have a few layers, starting with one's brain. I can't underscore that enough. It's our most-important posession, that planning, forethought, ability to truly see and interpret danger signals, to listen to that little voice that occasionally goes "ding!" when a situation is changing.

    Since taking a more proactive, enlightened role for my own security some years ago, I believe the chances are now extremely small, indeed. Insurance and whatnot are fine, for what they're intended: cleanup. As are police, who are good at reacting but not right there for protection. On the instant, one must survive the assault and the situation in order to contact such people for cleanup assitance, else nothing matters. Dark or not, it's reality. (Doubt it? Take any situation you like where you're on your own, away from others, and then honestly think it through.)

    I can't fault someone for trying to be ready at all times when there are so many others who aren't prepared to defend themselves any of the time.
    It's a bit like riding a bicycle, in that the muscle-memory skills learned simply become a part of you. Once the heightened awareness and altered perspective has been honestly engaged, considered and practiced, then it's unobtrusive and always there. It becomes second nature. I don't "run point" when with a group of friends, though I keep my eyes open and notice things most of them don't ever recall seeing. I don't "clear" my house every time I re-enter, though I look closely for signs and cruise through the main rooms if anything's amiss, yes. I don't refuse to do restaurants, though I certainly am cognizant of inappropriate seating (and why). I don't fail to enjoy a gathering or outing, since only a little bit of forethought when picking venues resolves any conflicts like those we've been discussing.

    Bright and sunny and reasonably well-considered,

    - Michael
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 7th, 2006 at 06:35 PM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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