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Secret compartment laws?

This is a discussion on Secret compartment laws? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; And so for the second time this year, I will drive 1800 miles to the east coast instead of dealing with the airport dance. Our ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member
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    And so for the second time this year, I will drive 1800 miles to the east coast instead of dealing with the airport dance.

    Our courts have lost their way on the intent and purpose of the 4th. Zealous to do anything they can to help with the drug wars, they have even consented to the seizure of money and property on mere suspicion.

    If there was ever a good reason to legitimize and decriminalize drug use, it would be precisely to restore 4th amendment rights.

    It is really grievous when some courts in some circuits allow LEOs to do warrantless searches of smartphones and tablets.
    BkCo1 and oakchas like this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    And so for the second time this year, I will drive 1800 miles to the east coast instead of dealing with the airport dance.

    Our courts have lost their way on the intent and purpose of the 4th. Zealous to do anything they can to help with the drug wars, they have even consented to the seizure of money and property on mere suspicion.

    If there was ever a good reason to legitimize and decriminalize drug use, it would be precisely to restore 4th amendment rights.

    It is really grievous when some courts in some circuits allow LEOs to do warrantless searches of smartphones and tablets.
    It isn't drug laws alone... now, of course, we have the "Patriot Act." Which allows criminal, unconstitutional behavior by "agencies" of the government...

    Don't get me started on this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    It isn't drug laws alone... now, of course, we have the "Patriot Act." Which allows criminal, unconstitutional behavior by "agencies" of the government...

    Don't get me started on this.
    Of course it is not the drug laws alone. It is not even The Patriot Act or any other law. It is the desire on the part of judges to promote community welfare by giving police the tools needed to get a job done. Yet overlooked too often are the proper boundaries--- secure in papers and effects has lost its meaning; probable cause has become a slippery slope with almost no meaning. Reasonable suspicion, well what one person thinks is reasonable another thinks is unreasonable, hence it is really no standard at all.

    This stuff needs a political solution. But before we can get to that point, the general public is going to have to become scared out of their minds at the extent to which we collectively (our legislatures and our courts) allow these abuses to go on.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    The SC house had a bill that would outlaw secret compartments if they contained illegal drugs, guns, or people. It didn't go anywhere.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Of course it is not the drug laws alone. It is not even The Patriot Act or any other law. It is the desire on the part of judges to promote community welfare by giving police the tools needed to get a job done. Yet overlooked too often are the proper boundaries--- secure in papers and effects has lost its meaning; probable cause has become a slippery slope with almost no meaning. Reasonable suspicion, well what one person thinks is reasonable another thinks is unreasonable, hence it is really no standard at all.
    To that I offer:

    "For all the myths and shibboleths, one thing is true.
    Free men are never equal, and equal men are never free."
    J.G. Murray

    AND
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
    deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin


    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    This stuff needs a political solution. But before we can get to that point, the general public is going to have to become scared out of their minds at the extent to which we collectively (our legislatures and our courts) allow these abuses to go on.
    To that I offer:

    "When you get angry enough, grab your rifle and run outside.
    If you're the only one there, it's not time yet!"
    Unknown

    The rifle is not necessary, yet (and hopefully never will be). But hoping to get the American public scared out of their minds over anything but a sale on flat screens at Wally World is wasted hope.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    There was a shop in florida who used to install secret compartments,smoke screen, drop nails out from under the car, flipping license plates,tear gas into vehicle for all walks of life. His uncle made most of the vehicles for the James Bond movies. His stuff was top notch. He had a car that the license plate would come away from the vehicle flip over and move back into position. I have seen a secret compartment inside a secret compartment inside a secret compartment. He used to use a key fob alarm transmitter to enter a code to get into the compartments.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    When I have to enter a government building I am required to disarm and leave my weapon in my car. That presents a dilemma.
    Do I leave it where it could be easily found or do I attempt to hide it away to prevent it from falling into the hands of a criminal?

    If I leave it where it could be easily found I increase the chances of someone rummaging through my car for it. A criminal.

    If on the other hand I attempt to hide it away to make it harder for criminals to find it I increase the chances of a different unwanted group will rummage through my vehicle. The government.

    Michael

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    To that I offer:

    "For all the myths and shibboleths, one thing is true.
    Free men are never equal, and equal men are never free."
    J.G. Murray

    AND
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
    deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin




    To that I offer:

    "When you get angry enough, grab your rifle and run outside.
    If you're the only one there, it's not time yet!"
    Unknown

    The rifle is not necessary, yet (and hopefully never will be). But hoping to get the American public scared out of their minds over anything but a sale on flat screens at Wally World is wasted hope.
    Please don't put words in my mouth, especially as you have misconstrued my intention rather badly. I do not
    hope to get the people scared out of their minds nor do I think "the rifle is necessary" or ever likely to be so.

    To the contrary, we all have it within our hands to speak up, to lobby for change, to agitate for change.
    We actually do so in a tiny way by discussing things here. Surely among our readers there are many lawyers, a few legislators and some judges.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Please don't put words in my mouth, especially as you have misconstrued my intention rather badly. I do not
    hope to get the people scared out of their minds nor do I think "the rifle is necessary" or ever likely to be so.

    To the contrary, we all have it within our hands to speak up, to lobby for change, to agitate for change.
    We actually do so in a tiny way by discussing things here. Surely among our readers there are many lawyers, a few legislators and some judges.
    You misconstrued my misconstruing!

    I fully understand that you are not advocating the use of arms, nor that you actually hope to scare people out of their minds.

    I fully agree that we need to speak up to our friends and neighbors, lobby and agitate for changes.

    The general public seem to believe the rhetoric that "things are getting better," "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear," and so on.

    What ought to scare them, is that both "sides" are spewing these lies. Things are not getting better, and you have rights that are guaranteed, and the government is to be limited in how it can violate them.

    My point about the "rifle" is that there are some (myself NOT included) that believe we need to "water the tree of Liberty." I do not believe it is that bad, yet.

    I do believe that that the founders knew that the people had to have arms available to them to put an end to a corrupt government if need be. I also know that they (the founding generation) did not allow "Militia Nullification" of laws thought to be unconstitutional in those times. So, even our founding generation learned first hand that power corrupts.

    I did not put words in your mouth, nor did I intend to, but I am sorry if you thought I did (or would).
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  10. #25
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    FL law allows anyone over 18 who's not prohibited from possessing firearms to conceal a loaded gun inside a private conveyance as long as it's "securely encased" and not "on the person" (which requires a CWFL). Securely encased includes closed compartments. Nothing is mentioned that the compartment has to be visible or not. If an Leo asks if I have a gun in the care I'll be glad to say yes.

    I have many film canisters and pill bottles in my garage, which are handy for containing small items. Nothing about them should cause any "reasonable suspicion" on their own. They work better than baby food jars and don't break.

    Being nervous is not a reason for a search. Everytime I've been pulled over by an LEO I've been nervous. It's a natural reaction to an impending ticket.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  11. #26
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    "Does the fact that I have a locked case hidden in my vehicle cost me my rights?"


    Somebody might want to check on this to make certain but, I think that if there is a lock on the case then a warrant would be needed before it could be opened.

  12. #27
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    I'd be more worried about forgetting something in it when I tried to cross a border or something. I do like the idea of a readily accessible hidden compartment inside my vehicle though. Great place to put a second copy of my ID and stow my pistol for those times when I can't take it with me.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    "Does the fact that I have a locked case hidden in my vehicle cost me my rights?"


    Somebody might want to check on this to make certain but, I think that if there is a lock on the case then a warrant would be needed before it could be opened.
    At this link I found the following.
    380 F3d 538 United States v. Lopez | OpenJurist
    The Supreme Court has explicitly stated that "[t]he police may search an automobile and the containers within it where they have probable cause to believe contraband or evidence is contained."5 Acevedo, 500 U.S. at 580, 111 S.Ct. 1982; see also Owens, 167 F.3d at 750 ("[I]f probable cause justifies the search of a lawfully stopped vehicle, it justifies the search of every part of the vehicle and its contents that may conceal the object of the search.") (quoting Ross, 456 U.S. at 800, 102 S.Ct. 2157). Similarly, "efforts to restrict access to an area do not generate a reasonable expectation of privacy where none would otherwise exist," Class, 475 U.S. at 114, 106 S.Ct. 960.
    In my original post it seems that a hidden compartment in itself give probable cause to search.
    6
    While searching the van, Story located a wire leading to a locked compartment under the front passenger seat. Suspecting that the compartment contained contraband, Houle went to fetch a camera to document the compartment and its contents. En route, he briefly entered the interview room, told Lopez that he and Story had found "the stuff" and that "the deal was off." Houle left the interview room immediately after making his remark. The compartment was later found to contain sixty-three grams of crack cocaine, a loaded semi-automatic.40 caliber handgun with an obliterated serial number, and a package of photographs bearing Lopez' name.
    This description of his hidden compartment sounds like my center of mass gun safe. This all sounds to me like an officer who spots the cable now has probable cause to do a full search. Has this safe caused me to be unsafe?

    Michael

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    You misconstrued my misconstruing!

    I fully understand that you are not advocating the use of arms, nor that you actually hope to scare people out of their minds.

    I fully agree that we need to speak up to our friends and neighbors, lobby and agitate for changes.

    The general public seem to believe the rhetoric that "things are getting better," "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear," and so on.

    What ought to scare them, is that both "sides" are spewing these lies. Things are not getting better, and you have rights that are guaranteed, and the government is to be limited in how it can violate them.

    My point about the "rifle" is that there are some (myself NOT included) that believe we need to "water the tree of Liberty." I do not believe it is that bad, yet.

    I do believe that that the founders knew that the people had to have arms available to them to put an end to a corrupt government if need be. I also know that they (the founding generation) did not allow "Militia Nullification" of laws thought to be unconstitutional in those times. So, even our founding generation learned first hand that power corrupts.

    I did not put words in your mouth, nor did I intend to, but I am sorry if you thought I did (or would).
    For an unusual but enlightening perspective of what happens to a society when that tree is watered, try taking a look at Liberty's Exiles. It ain't a pretty picture.

    You can get it as an e-book for about 12 bucks. Great read. And you don't need to buy a Kindle to read it. There are Apps for the iPhone, programs for the Windows desktop, and a Cloud for Safari and Google Chrome browsers.

    Anyway, I'm all for law and order and giving the good guys tools with which to do their jobs, but I like nice neat lines in the sand on the 4th; and right now there aren't any.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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