If You Have Ever Used Your Weapon In Self Defense, We Need Your Input

This is a discussion on If You Have Ever Used Your Weapon In Self Defense, We Need Your Input within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MitchellCT Some people would complain if a bunch of sorority girls on spring break decided he was enough man for all of ...

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Thread: If You Have Ever Used Your Weapon In Self Defense, We Need Your Input

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Some people would complain if a bunch of sorority girls on spring break decided he was enough man for all of them and wanted to pass him around like a joint.
    Best analogy all week.

    I agree with all of you. It's good to have training on use of lethal force. It's good to have training on legal implications of a defensive shoot. It's good to have personal liability insurance, it's good to be part of a legal defense fund.

    I have limited financial resources, and have none of these things (besides lots of reading on the legal issues). When I have some money and time to throw at it, I'll probably start with the legal defense fund, then training (lethal force, then legal issues), then liability insurance.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Some people would complain if a bunch of sorority girls on spring break decided he was enough man for all of them and wanted to pass him around like a joint.

    $4,000 to get rid of a lawsuit like that? Wow. I'm literally speachless.
    where can i go to get that problem?
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Find an attorney who will handle a civil case involving a shooting for $4,000 and you will have that problem.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    The name "Harold Fish" comes to mind. Or was that just an anomaly?
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  6. #20
    Member Array ramblinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Lethal Force Institute is the real deal. But I'm not going to turn down by Legal Defense Fund through the FOP either. Or cancel my personal 1 million dollar liability policy.

    Insurance is the ultimate gamble. When you buy it, you are betting you will need it. The issuing company is betting you don't.

    That's one bet I don't mind losing.
    I am an insurance agent and often times insurance in general is looked upon by many as a "sham" etc. Insureds sometime get upset that they keep paying premiums yet get nothing in return. I like to look at insurance as the pooling of all of our resources (cash) in order to help pay the claims of a few, whos lives would be devastated, financially, by a big dollar claim. If all insurerds were able to get something tangible out of paying their premiums, the system would not work! Some only pay total premiums of say $200 and then have a claim over $300,000 that is covered etc. Others pay premiums all their lives and never have a claim. It's the intangibles we receive from knowing we are covered, that our financial livelihoods are protected, that allow those insureds to sleep better at night!

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    The name "Harold Fish" comes to mind. Or was that just an anomaly?
    Anomaly in the extreme.

    He went to court because he gave a long, rambling, at times contradictory statement to the police without counsel. He made it so that the police ended up saying "This guy have not given us a straight story. We have a dead body, no clear statement of what happened...We just have to arrest and hope the courts get it right..."

    The whole 10mm thing with people freaking out over it was a sideshow by people who don't know about, and refuse to learn about, proper aftermath procedures.

    Yes, the prosecutor used it hard...that's what happens when you screw the pooch to the point they are putting you on trial for murder.

    Someone's dead, and fish contradicted himself while talking to the police, and gave information inconsistent with your prior statement, the evidence and people who heard the shots...At what point did people believe he shouldn't going to trial?

    That's the point of the judicial system - to resolve cases of ambiguity that involve corpses.

    And like any system - GIGO. Garbage in...garbage out.

    Garbage went in. Then it came out.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Anomaly in the extreme.

    He went to court because he gave a long, rambling, at times contradictory statement to the police without counsel. He made it so that the police ended up saying "This guy have not given us a straight story. We have a dead body, no clear statement of what happened...We just have to arrest and hope the courts get it right..."

    The whole 10mm thing with people freaking out over it was a sideshow by people who don't know about, and refuse to learn about, proper aftermath procedures.

    Yes, the prosecutor used it hard...that's what happens when you screw the pooch to the point they are putting you on trial for murder.

    Someone's dead, and fish contradicted himself while talking to the police, and gave information inconsistent with your prior statement, the evidence and people who heard the shots...At what point did people believe he shouldn't going to trial?

    That's the point of the judicial system - to resolve cases of ambiguity that involve corpses.

    And like any system - GIGO. Garbage in...garbage out.

    Garbage went in. Then it came out.
    Sure would have been nice if he'd had a lawyer he could have called because he was part of some group that pooled their resources. That lawyer could have told him to shut up and stopped the questioning, then represented him at all the stages of his arrest and initial hearings.

    Shame such a thing doesn't exist. Oh, wait...

    /Disclaimer: I've never heard of "Harold Fish".

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Sure would have been nice if he'd had a lawyer he could have called because he was part of some group that pooled their resources. That lawyer could have told him to shut up and stopped the questioning, then represented him at all the stages of his arrest and initial hearings.

    Shame such a thing doesn't exist. Oh, wait...

    /Disclaimer: I've never heard of "Harold Fish".
    Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.

    If you were a member, I'd tell you to click on the CT attorneys and you get the contact info of some guy who happens to share my name...

    It's not a bad thing to have the insurance...

    It's just that people seem to want to latch onto an "Insta-fix" and not alter their behavior in any way, hoping they will get by.

    It's lazy, and I think it's unacceptable.

    Relying on an insurance plan in the aftermath is like going stupid places, with stupid people doing stupid things...and expecting when the worse occurs, you've got a gun, so you'll be OK...

    Again, unacceptable.

    Yeah, have the gun & the insurance. Be able to effectively use both...when needed.

    You don't plan for "best of worst case scenario", and that's what a lot of these insurance plans seem to be selling: "You don't have to alter your behavior! We'll back you up in case the police/prosecutor just don't understand that you were minding your own business when these guy attacked you and you shot them in 100% lawful self defense..."

    Bull pucky. Horse dung. Statistics!

    It's selling an easy answer to a situation that doesn't have one.

    You want to be a fighter, you gotta do the running, medicine ball, crunches, diet and spar.

    You want to be an effective, safe, well protected user of firearms who doesn't have to worry about the aftermath?

    You got's to do the work just like a boxer preps.

    Otherwise, you are just a fat out of shape guy buying the "Make you a killer! Only $49.99!!" DVD watching it on his couch saying, "Yeah!! I can do that stuff! I don't have to train!"

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.

    If you were a member, I'd tell you to click on the CT attorneys and you get the contact info of some guy who happens to share my name...

    It's not a bad thing to have the insurance...

    It's just that people seem to want to latch onto an "Insta-fix" and not alter their behavior in any way, hoping they will get by.
    Agreed on both points. Well, everything else in your post too, but these points are the most important. People seem to think if they have a lawyer around, they are protected from anything after they have to use their defensive weapons, and their defensive weapons can get them out of any situation. You are not invincible, no matter what hardware and paperwork you have.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Agreed on both points. Well, everything else in your post too, but these points are the most important. People seem to think if they have a lawyer around, they are protected from anything after they have to use their defensive weapons, and their defensive weapons can get them out of any situation. You are not invincible, no matter what hardware and paperwork you have.
    It's an unfortunate effect of the "gear" mentality that infects the gun community.

    The thinking being that if you have X gear/insurance/whatever you will be ready/skilled/cool/protected...

    Feh.

    If you can't get to training because of financial issues, read. Amazon/ebay/various gun forums will allow you to get almost any training material, for very low prices.

    For $85 Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc. gives you a membership and 3 or 4 law DVD's which, if you can't get to a tier 1 instructor for his lecture...you can get it on DVD & still get the year of coverage.

    You can find the old Street Survival books circa 1980's, LE & competition training books, get some used undergrad criminal justice textbooks or used law school textbooks on criminal law, criminal procedure, constitutional law and tort law, evidence and other areas so you can understand what is going on in the system and why "the experts" say to do/say or not do/say something...

    You can do it right, and on the cheap.

    If you want to put in the effort. If not...

    Insurance companies and lawyers love money, and will be happy to take yours.

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