Update to my Incident in Tulsa

Update to my Incident in Tulsa

This is a discussion on Update to my Incident in Tulsa within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; First, please to those of you that got the last thread closed just exercise some judgement, I want this thread to be seen, read and ...

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Thread: Update to my Incident in Tulsa

  1. #1
    Member Array Oufan08's Avatar
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    Update to my Incident in Tulsa

    First, please to those of you that got the last thread closed just exercise some judgement, I want this thread to be seen, read and civilly discussed as I feel this incident is deeply troubling.

    We filed a complaint with the Sheriffs office right after the Woodland Hills Mall incident. A Captain called my girlfriend the other day and essentially harassed her and made us out to be the bad guy. She said that it's posted "where the rules are that no guns are allowed" and thats sufficient enough and that if they ever see us and the think we're carrying will be stopped and searched and arrested if they find out guns.

    When my girlfriend asked where it's posted the captain said " it's posted wherever the rules are." So now I've called my state senator and filed a complaint. I'm not trying to be difficult but I'm not going to be harassed and threatened for exercising my rights. The funniest thing I thought was my girlfriend read off to her the prohibitted places under the law and the cop said "ma'am the law is open to interpretation, and the list in the law is not exclusive.". The entire demeanor of the Captain that called was combative and rude.

    So Senator Dan Newberry who told me he's very much in favor of conceal carry is now investigating. I hope some lessons will be learned in this incident, while I deeply respect law enforcement and I feel this incident is not indicative of leos, hopefully something good will come out of this.


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    I'm really sorry to hear you are still having trouble over this.

    There are a couple of "unmovable" forces here:
    1. Private property owners have rights.
    2. The police don't have to be courteous.

    IMHO:

    Easy answer- Don't CCW at that mall; or either choose to never go to that mall again.

    Hard answer- Type out a detailed statement of the whole thing, bring it to a lawyer and let him read it. Follow the lawyers advice.

    Good luck and I hope you find some resolution
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Member Array Oufan08's Avatar
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    Fortunately we have spoken to a lawyer and he's on our side.

    Unfortunately there is a store in that mall that's only in that mall that I have to shop at for work. I also choose not to be a victim of a potential crime.

    I'm also stubborn enough that I refuse to let the sheriffs department infringe on my rights, so I'm going to keep pushing the issue not only for me but for other gun owners.
    TN_Mike likes this.

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    I'm all for your rights, and applaud you for defending them. Just remember though, your right to swing your arms ends where the next guys nose begins.
    jem102 and jmlampert23 like this.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Member Array ldmtulsa's Avatar
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    If I were you I would request a direct, face to face meeting with the Sheriff Glanz and ask the the captain that called you be present.
    Magnum and TN_Mike like this.
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    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oufan08 View Post
    Fortunately we have spoken to a lawyer and he's on our side.

    Unfortunately there is a store in that mall that's only in that mall that I have to shop at for work. I also choose not to be a victim of a potential crime.

    I'm also stubborn enough that I refuse to let the sheriffs department infringe on my rights, so I'm going to keep pushing the issue not only for me but for other gun owners.
    what you are missing here is that the property owner has rights as well and it is his right to exclude people carrying weapons onto his property, it appears that you've been warned, like it or not you would be well advised to heed that warning.
    FWIW: you probably would have been better off not trying to assert your rights and just continued to carry there, remember concealed means concealed and if properly concealing nobody should ever be able to spot your weapon.

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    Ex Member Array JBachman's Avatar
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    Several years ago in my city, a citizen was lawfully exercising his right to open carry when an LEO "interpreted" the law. The city is STILL paying off that lawsuit. Most cities and officials think the average citizen wont stand up for their rights. We have to, within the bounds of the law, or before we know it, we will lose those rights.

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    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    what you are missing here is that the property owner has rights as well and it is his right to exclude people carrying weapons onto his property, it appears that you've been warned, like it or not you would be well advised to heed that warning.
    FWIW: you probably would have been better off not trying to assert your rights and just continued to carry there, remember concealed means concealed and if properly concealing nobody should ever be able to spot your weapon.

    +1, This IMO speaks volumes of good advice, especially the bold portion. For those states where the "No Firearms" signage has no weight of law other than a Trespassing violation if confronted and refused to be acknowledged, what this gent has suggested is worth it's weight in gold. JMO, YMMV
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

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    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    FWIW: you probably would have been better off not trying to assert your rights and just continued to carry there, remember concealed means concealed and if properly concealing nobody should ever be able to spot your weapon.
    Agreed +1
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    If I remember correctly, you were in the parking lot, not in the mall. Here in florida, we have a "parking lot law" essentially says any legally owned firearm may be in a vehicle in a public parking area. Does Oklahoma have a similar law? Seems I remember the NRA going to bat, to get a similar bill passed in Ok ???
    after some employee of a company was fired for having a firearm in his vehicle after a company search of vehicles turned up the weapon???
    I'm sorry I don't remember any more of the details, you may though since you live there.
    Anybody????
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    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    FWIW: you probably would have been better off not trying to assert your rights and just continued to carry there, remember concealed means concealed and if properly concealing nobody should ever be able to spot your weapon.
    While I agree with this in most situations, remember his GF was told.....

    "She said that it's posted "where the rules are that no guns are allowed" and thats sufficient enough and that if they ever see us and the think we're carrying will be stopped and searched and arrested if they find out guns."
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

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    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

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    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZX9RCAM View Post
    While I agree with this in most situations, remember his GF was told.....

    "She said that it's posted "where the rules are that no guns are allowed" and thats sufficient enough and that if they ever see us and the think we're carrying will be stopped and searched and arrested if they find out guns."
    her making an issue of it has caused her to be a "stop on sight" candidate

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    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    If I remember correctly, you were in the parking lot, not in the mall. Here in florida, we have a "parking lot law" essentially says any legally owned firearm may be in a vehicle in a public parking area. Does Oklahoma have a similar law? Seems I remember the NRA going to bat, to get a similar bill passed in Ok ???
    after some employee of a company was fired for having a firearm in his vehicle after a company search of vehicles turned up the weapon???
    I'm sorry I don't remember any more of the details, you may though since you live there.
    Anybody????
    Yes Oklahoma does have this law, in fact if you go to handgunlaw.us and click on Oklahoma you can view it in the section on "Do NO GUN signs have the force of law?" -- Gary Slider says yes, but read on down in that section and you can see where that although the mall can say no guns inside the mall, they are barred from keeping people from having guns in their locked car in the parking lot.
    Stubborn likes this.
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

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    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oufan08 View Post
    Fortunately we have spoken to a lawyer and he's on our side.
    For enough money just about any lawyer will be on your side.

    I really hope you win a victory here. I really hope the congressman who is saying he is siding with you is sincere. I really hope that you can do good for yourself and others.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Oufan08,

    Glad this incident seems to be going in a direction that will get it resolved in your favor.
    I read your original post and the following discussion.


    Best of luck, and thank you for your service.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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