Holster Rules in IPSC and IDPA Competitions

Holster Rules in IPSC and IDPA Competitions

This is a discussion on Holster Rules in IPSC and IDPA Competitions within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; For IPSC and IDPA competitions, I think I've seen that belted holsters must be worn behind the hipbone (but not SOB) and not cross-draw, and ...

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Thread: Holster Rules in IPSC and IDPA Competitions

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    Member Array MikeFontenot's Avatar
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    Holster Rules in IPSC and IDPA Competitions

    For IPSC and IDPA competitions, I think I've seen that belted holsters must be worn behind the hipbone (but not SOB) and not cross-draw, and that shoulder holsters aren't allowed at all (and neither are pocket holsters). Anyone know why?

    (I'm considering getting a 1911 for carry, and I think there may be advantages for me to carry IWB at either 2:00 or 10:00, or perhaps in a slightly forward-canted shoulder holster. It would be nice to be able to use IPSA or IDPA competition as a means to improve my abilities. But I'm not willing to let those competitions dictate my carry options ... that would be like letting "the tail wag the dog".)


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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFontenot View Post
    For IPSC and IDPA competitions, I think I've seen that belted holsters must be worn behind the hipbone (but not SOB) and not cross-draw, and that shoulder holsters aren't allowed at all (and neither are pocket holsters). Anyone know why?

    (I'm considering getting a 1911 for carry, and I think there may be advantages for me to carry IWB at either 2:00 or 10:00, or perhaps in a slightly forward-canted shoulder holster. It would be nice to be able to use IPSA or IDPA competition as a means to improve my abilities. But I'm not willing to let those competitions dictate my carry options ... that would be like letting "the tail wag the dog".)
    It's a safety issue,they don't want people getting swept,most shoulder holsters whether verticle or horizonta you pull the grip forward in the draw which means the muzzle becomes pointed toward the rear and that just isn't acceptable,same way with a crossdraw holster as you draw forward muzzle is pointed rearward and you sweep sideways as you bring the gun around.
    One alternative is to set up your own range on private land and practice anyway you need too
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    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Member Array MikeFontenot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    It's a safety issue,they don't want people getting swept,most shoulder holsters whether verticle or horizonta you pull the grip forward in the draw which means the muzzle becomes pointed toward the rear and that just isn't acceptable,same way with a crossdraw holster as you draw forward muzzle is pointed rearward and you sweep sideways as you bring the gun around.
    One alternative is to set up your own range on private land and practice anyway you need too
    Then that raises another question: Does the use of IWB at 10:00 or 2:00, or the use of a (near vertical) shoulder holster, in everyday carry, increase the risk to innocent bystanders? Has that been born out in actual accident statistics? There may not be any undercover cops or detectives anymore that use shoulder holsters, but uniformed cops probably carry most often OWB at 3:00, so that also would violate the competition rules. Seems like cops couldn't do that if it was really more dangerous to innocent bystanders.

    Also, it's not clear yet, to me, how IWB at 2:00 is any more dangerous in competitions than IWB at 4:00.

    And, it's also hard to see how pocket carry is more dangerous to bystanders.

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    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    In my opinion, it's unfair to compare what is allowed (or not allowed) in competition, for whatever reasons, to real world carrying.

    How I carry is based solely on what is convenient and comfortable for me, not whether I will sweep some bystander as I draw.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Member Array Ducmonster's Avatar
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    Use competition to hone your target acquisition and trigger skills Practice draw from your carry set up at home.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    In my opinion, it's unfair to compare what is allowed (or not allowed) in competition, for whatever reasons, to real world carrying.

    How I carry is based solely on what is convenient and comfortable for me, not whether I will sweep some bystander as I draw.
    Rules are made for a diverse bunch of shooters,they are not negotiable,you no likey then go to a private range that allows you to use a shoulder holster,I use to shoot at an indoor range that didn't allow drawing from any holster period,It could even be an insurance thing
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
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    Safety is job #1 in IDPA. Sweep yourself or someone else in IDPA and you're disqualified. You have experts shooting IDPA, all the way down to Novice, like me. And believe me, you don't want me wearing a cross draw or shoulder rig and draw

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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Not only does IDPA gaming not allow you to carry the way you may choose to EDC, their rules on the use of cover and other things that's allowed in gaming can get you killed in real life.

    If you want to learn to shoot with the goal of being the fastest for that day, shot IDPA. If your goal is to learn to save your life and those whom you love then I feel there are better places to spend your time and money.

    Like so many things having to do with the carrying of a gun, you will have to make that choice for yourself.

    Does anyone know, How many of the great stars of IDPA CC? I have not a qlue.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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    Member Array Ducmonster's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Bill MO;2017957]Not only does IDPA gaming not allow you to carry the way you may choose to EDC, their rules on the use of cover and other things that's allowed in gaming can get you killed in real life.

    If you want to learn to shoot with the goal of being the fastest for that day, shot IDPA. If your goal is to learn to save your life and those whom you love then I feel there are better places to spend your time and money.

    Like so many things having to do with the carrying of a gun, you will have to make that choice for yourself.

    Bill Mo please provide some detail as to what you dislike about IDPA also what are the better places to spend your money and why?

    I shot some IPSC 10+ years ago and it was a race game. It did help me to learn about safe gun handling as well as shooting practice. I think you use it for what you can get out of it
    then apply knowledge learned from other sources to develop your own self defense strategies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFontenot View Post
    Then that raises another question: Does the use of IWB at 10:00 or 2:00, or the use of a (near vertical) shoulder holster, in everyday carry, increase the risk to innocent bystanders? Has that been born out in actual accident statistics? There may not be any undercover cops or detectives anymore that use shoulder holsters, but uniformed cops probably carry most often OWB at 3:00, so that also would violate the competition rules. Seems like cops couldn't do that if it was really more dangerous to innocent bystanders.

    Also, it's not clear yet, to me, how IWB at 2:00 is any more dangerous in competitions than IWB at 4:00.

    And, it's also hard to see how pocket carry is more dangerous to bystanders.
    It takes a huge amount of discipline with any shoulder holster to keep from crossing your own body parts either on the draw or on re-holstering, and the fact that you have to swing the gun 180 degrees to bring it to bear on target increases the chances of "sweeping" an innocent.

    In the gun games, cops are typically allowed to use their OWB duty rigs, so no, they don't violate (most) game rules. But in IDPA, the emphasis is on concealed carry so dropped and offset holsters and forward-rakes are not permitted except for LEOs using duty gear.

    Re 2:00 vs. 4:00 IWB positions, look closely at where the muzzle is pointed in each position, regardless of neutral or muzzle-rearward cant. Barring highly unusual body shapes, the 2:00 position has the muzzle pointed right at various parts of your own anatomy, whereas the 4:00 position does not, due to the presence of the hip and butt cheeks. In the games, safety of the shooter is as important as the safety of everyone else present.

    I doubt if anyone gathers statistics bearing out the statistical risk associated with shoulder holster or appendix carry, but rule-makers for the games certainly have safety of the sport in mind and you can't blame them for that.
    Smitty
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    NROI Chief Range Officer

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    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducmonster View Post

    Bill Mo please provide some detail as to what you dislike about IDPA also what are the better places to spend your money and why?

    I shot some IPSC 10+ years ago and it was a race game. It did help me to learn about safe gun handling as well as shooting practice. I think you use it for what you can get out of it
    then apply knowledge learned from other sources to develop your own self defense strategies.
    What passes for use of cover in IDPA does not pass as proper use cover when doing actual room clearing or in general and while some IDPA types tout it as being uber tactical there are many times where they have you do things the wrong way and can reinforce bad behavior(s) for the sake of safety, while that is required on the range and makes sense it's easy to get stuck in the IDPA rut and those tactically incorrect behaviors can follow you back onto the street etc.

    I've shot a little IDPA, just shot the WI State Champ. match this month, placed 4th Place CDP Sharpshooter missing a 3rd place plaque by 6.4 seconds or so, and prior to that spent two days @ TDI in Ohio, with what one spends on an IDPA season, especially if one attends "big" matches, they could probably could have paid for a trip to TDI or any other course with money spent on IDPA stuff. In IDPA you see people running down hall ways & using cover with half your head or in some stages your whole head hanging out past cover and that will get your grape blown off if you ever end up shooting from cover in a real life situation.

    I like IDPA, I can do it more often and the scenarios/stages are different and help me realize my potential in differing environments / shooting positions, I think I've shot from retention more in IDPA than any of the classes I've taken. It also provides me a good metric to gauge improvement on some skills, but it's a game and a good two day class from a reputable instructor/institution will be much better at preparing one for the use of lethal force.

    What I said in my AAR of the TDI classes was this:

    I’ve often heard some people speak out against USPSA/IPSC while promoting IDPA because “USPSA will get you killed” etc. As an IDPA shooter and dabbler in USPSA I can say that IDPA is just as likely to get you killed as anything else when it comes to real use of cover. What I see at IDPA matches that passes for proper use of cover is a joke. IDPA and USPSA are what they are, they are games and yes they can build overall shooting skill, when it comes to tactics they are poor providers do don’t get hung up on the “tactical” aspect of IDPA.
    IDPA is fun, and helps me maintain the things I've learned, but I need to focus on that aspect of it and not get to into the game aspect of it and that can be hard to do.
    Last edited by JD; August 31st, 2011 at 11:43 AM.
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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Thak You JD, I think you about covered the dislikes of IDPA for me and a much better job of doing it.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Rules are made for a diverse bunch of shooters,they are not negotiable,you no likey then go to a private range that allows you to use a shoulder holster,I use to shoot at an indoor range that didn't allow drawing from any holster period,It could even be an insurance thing
    Duke: reread what I posted. The post has nothing to do with concealed carry, the subject of this particular sub-section. I have NO problem with any range rules. I'm an RO at my local range and safety is UPPERMOST and I enforce them as needed. I agree with what you said, however.

    My comment was referring to real-world carrying, not some competition.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Member Array gigamortis's Avatar
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    I shoot both IPSC/USPSA and IDPA. They are definitely two different mindsets of operandi depending on which one you are shooting in. IPSC/USPSA has the shooter primarily in an offensive mode, while IDPA has the shooter in primarily in a defensive mode. IPSC/USPSA is more speed oriented in how you make scoring while IDPA places more score weight on accuracy.

    Yes, both are games, but IDPA is my personal favorite, as it is more defensive oriented, which is why I carry in the first place. Stressing accuracy is a plus, too, because any rounds you let loose from your gun don't need to be hitting any innocents in a real world encounter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFontenot View Post
    Then that raises another question: Does the use of IWB at 10:00 or 2:00, or the use of a (near vertical) shoulder holster, in everyday carry, increase the risk to innocent bystanders? Has that been born out in actual accident statistics? There may not be any undercover cops or detectives anymore that use shoulder holsters, but uniformed cops probably carry most often OWB at 3:00, so that also would violate the competition rules. Seems like cops couldn't do that if it was really more dangerous to innocent bystanders.

    Also, it's not clear yet, to me, how IWB at 2:00 is any more dangerous in competitions than IWB at 4:00.

    And, it's also hard to see how pocket carry is more dangerous to bystanders.
    3:00 carry is just fine for IDPA. I carry at 3:00 when I shoot IDPA, and so do 99% of the other shooters.

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