Putting 21' rule to the test
This is a discussion on Putting 21' rule to the test within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I read about these tests. Supposedly in Las Vegas at a mercenary convention (the one with a major magazine), there was this huge guy coming ...
August 8th, 2006 03:03 AM
I read about these tests. Supposedly in Las Vegas at a mercenary convention (the one with a major magazine), there was this huge guy coming at you enraged and no one could beat him.
I don't know if they caught you by surprise or what. I would have liked to try.
Imagine a pissed off ( you can feel and smell the evil ) gorilla of a man, with a large butcher knife, with an intent of disembowing you who has these cat-like featues and are within a telephone poles distance. I would not want to face this foe.
Imagine this same foe, but you were unaware of the act of aggression that is coming your way.
Seriously, would you survive ? ....
August 8th, 2006 03:03 AM
August 8th, 2006 09:07 AM
artz, Now imagine that foe-And your not armed!
I'm LEO and I encourage every one that I know to apply
for CCW. And get some extra training.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
- Sir Winston Churchill
August 8th, 2006 09:26 AM
I personally know a Texas State Trooper who was attacked after a chase by a drugged up 300 pound man weilding a large kitchen knife. Despite putting 4 rounds of .357 sig into the mans center mass, the guy still had enough momentum to reach the Trooper, and knock him to the ground....luckily for him, he was able to disarm the suspect before he could stab him. (If I can get ahold of the car video I will post it)
Just goes to show, that the 21' rule is merely a suggestion, not a precise scientific calculation. I think the whole point of this rule is to make officers aware of one very simple equation.
Gun vs. Knife - distance=injury or death.
The closer you are to a knife, the less effective your firearm is; a very important lesson to learn.
August 8th, 2006 09:29 AM
August 8th, 2006 09:56 AM
Here's something a lot of people don't consider. Use all the tools at your disposal. If you are under attack and your life is on the line, you pull everything out. Personally, if someone is coming at me, I use the one weapon I have with guaranteed Stopping Powah...my leg. It's half the length of your body and you can project your full body weight against an attacker.
Martial artists on this board will recognize this simple front kick. Bring your knee up as high as you can, then thrust it out straight at your attacker. This will stop a quick rush attack and buy you the precious few seconds you need to draw and shoot. Also, it keeps knives and fists away from your face and torso.
I recommend that anybody who is serious about self defense consider adding tools to your collection. Take some martial arts. Combined with a firearm, it will strengthen your personal security status considerably.
August 8th, 2006 10:14 AM
I recommend that anybody who is serious about self defense consider adding tools to your collection. Take some martial arts. Combined with a firearm, it will strengthen your personal security status considerably
Very well said, Spectre. As a bluebelt about to test for his green belt in Kenpo, I can tell you guys that it is well worth it to take a martial arts class. It's a way of evening the odds against you and the bad guys, and it's also a SHTF option if, for instance, your gun jams or it gets taken away from you. Also carry a knife & asp whenever possible.
August 8th, 2006 10:36 AM
I'll second or uh third that. I studied hapkido through high school as well as some jujitsu and TaeKwondo in college (the TKD is useless on the street IMO), but took what I believe to be an even better class last year. Haganah. They call it the fight system and it incorporates firearm and knife attacks. Check it out, why not try to add to your bag of options for your defense?
Originally Posted by Risque007
August 8th, 2006 11:25 AM
Mark what you mention doing at the range is the way we did it in our CCW class.. I bummed out the instructors i could draw and get 2 off before they could get 21 foot .. course i shoot a lot a whole lot i was a bad choice for them..lol
August 8th, 2006 12:01 PM
What most folks don't realize is that you should move laterally to your attacker and shoot into him/her early and often, even if they go past you. Getting out of the way is good Juju.
August 8th, 2006 01:07 PM
Must I repeat that these test were crude and not in any way directed to be concrete or with out falter. All but a few recognized this so THANK YOU AGZ23 for your input and constructive ideas!
August 8th, 2006 01:48 PM
And as some have previously mentioned - handgun bullets are VERY POOR fight stoppers.
"He who makes things with his hands is a laborer, he who makes things with his hands and his head is a craftsman, he who makes things with his hands, his head, and his heart is an artist."
August 8th, 2006 02:13 PM
PT111 is exactly right. I was a police medic for many years and saw the same thing.
The worst beating I ever got was from a skinny little girl, 14 years old, as big around at the belt as a number two lead pencil and tall enough to look me right in the bottom of the shirt pocket.
Matter of fact she knocked the stuffing out of four good cops that night, all of us finally got her down by sheer mass.
Now: the oncoming opponent: string a clothes line wire from the post behind the shooter to the post at the target stand.
Hang a pulley on this wire.
Hang a silhouette target from the pulley.
Tie a rope on the pulley and have your partner stand behind you. At the signal he talkes off walking, which draws the target toward you at walking speed. If you've never tried it, it's intimidating!
Next have your partner take off running.
We did this for qualification one time.
I was the only officer who got off six shots.
Hit the x-ring all six.
Number six was delivered while I was diving off to the right. Landed painfully on my shoulder but did not sweep anyone and got all six in the x-ring.
Back when I was young and skinny.
August 8th, 2006 02:17 PM
N/P.....I think most were just trying to add to your arsenal...
If you want more info on where to find the Airsoft equiptment, just ask..
taking infomation you recieve and expanding on it, quesioning it and proving its merit or wether its trash is exactly what you want to do..some trainers will teach you that you should only do it their way..some take those ideas and test them out with FOF drills, and adapt it into the bag o tricks if its worthy...some ideas will flat out getcha killed.
As for handgun rounds being weak...yes, yes they are...thats why you need to put multiple hits on target as FAST as possible. Shoot em to the ground.....
Originally Posted by Go Glock
August 8th, 2006 08:43 PM
I have had good results by moving to approximately 10 o'clock. Typically the individual moves past you by about eight feet. As most people circle at the same rate, it is a small matter to stay to his oblique and continue shooting until he is down.
Originally Posted by Jungle Work
Speaking as a (former) martial artist, a front kick can be a viable defense but it has some significant drawbacks.
Originally Posted by Spectre
First, kicks do not tend to work well against an opponent who is significantly larger than you. A 160-lbs. man is not going to counter the rush of a 220-lbs. assailant with a front kick. He is going to get knocked on his butt.
Second, you offer your leg as a target. Ernie Emerson (an accomplished martial artist in his own right) once told me he would take a knife wound to the back if it meant he would be able to deliver an attack to his opponent's leg. Gaining control, even momentarily, of another person's leg is generally sufficient to foul a draw stroke. While it may require a skilled adversary to pull off such an attack, I would prefer not to assess my opponent's skill level by offering him pieces of my anatomy.
Creating/maintaining distance is the preferable response, though it is not always possible. A kick could be a second choice, though I would favor something along the lines of a cross-stomp kick to the knee.
I agree that training in unarmed combat is necessary to round out one's defensive tool kit. However, I believe most people are better off learning a few simple but effective unarmed techniques and practicing them on a regular basis as opposed to commiting to the serious study of a martial art. The WWII combatives program is a good model, but it is certainly not the only one.
Originally Posted by Spectre
August 8th, 2006 10:35 PM
I agree with Blackhawk 6. A few moves , well practiced will help alot. Most people do not have the time/ devotion to spend in a dojo.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
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