My first LEO encounter while packing

This is a discussion on My first LEO encounter while packing within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well, of course in some states it's required. In PA it is not. So in PA it's pretty much personal preference. If for any reason ...

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Thread: My first LEO encounter while packing

  1. #16
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    Risque007

    Well, of course in some states it's required.

    In PA it is not.

    So in PA it's pretty much personal preference.

    If for any reason I was asked to exit the vehicle I sure would notify.

    Oh...BTW - According to 2 of very local LEOS they said would prefer to be notified though really don't care one way or the other & it's pretty much a non issue with those 2.

    Addition: A third was not aware that we were NOT required to notify.

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  3. #17
    Member Array spud's Avatar
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    Its law in some states. Plus why would you not?

  4. #18
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    It is the law in AK that you must notify the officer that you are carrying when he/she comes up to you.

    The gun was in a Blackhawk CQC holster, on my belt. I Never carry my guns in my pockets.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risque007
    OKay guys, here's my 2 cents worth on this, and no offense to any LEOs out there, I love you guys.

    If I have a gun in my car/on my person, why do I have to tell the LEO about it? Especially if it has no bearing on, say, if they pull me over for going a little too fast. What's the sedgeway there?

    "Sir, did you know how fast you were going?"

    "No, but, um, I GOT A GUN, OFFICER! JUST THOUGHT YOU SHOULD KNOW!..."

    ?????

    If I have a right to carry a weapon in my car, why is it the LEO's business as long as I'm legal??
    In Missouri, LEOs will know because, 1) it's an endorsement on your driver's license, or, if you went the 2nd ID route, they'll know it when they run your license, since the records are linked.

    In Texas, we are required by law to produce our CHL when carrying, and it's good practice to produce it even if not carrying. It's a courtesy and a sign of respect.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    I think he handled it just fine.

    You gotta tell'em in the Sooner State, too.

  7. #21
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    Mass is not a good state to inform.

    Here in MA we are not required to inform an LEO. As I only started carrying the beginning of this year, I asked for direction on this subject from 3 local and 1 state police officers I know.

    Their suggestion was during a routine traffic stop or LEO encounter to NOT inform the LEO. I keep my wallet on the passenger seat and registration clipped to my visor. In a traffic stop I would turn on interior lights and keep hands on steering wheel. I can produce my license and registration without having to reach into a pocket or glove box.

    This was their reccomendation as CCW is rare in MA and the state is so liberal that mentioning anything about a gun or LTC permit is not a good idea (unless the situation requires). Do so and next thing you know, backup has been called and you are going through a full "felony arrest" until they can verify you are "legal".

    This is not to to say all MA LEO's would react in this way, many would handle it just fine, just that the chances of things going bad make it not worth the courtesy.

    I would certainly inform if asked directly, asked to step out of the car, or be in a situation where I could be "made" by the LEO (changing tire, etc).

  8. #22
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    I rode on patrol with a buddy that was a sheriff's deputy in Indiana for 5 years; you constantly deal with the dregs of society and so you start to expect the worse. Being informed up front that someone is carrying immediately told us he was one of the good guys and we could relax just a tad. Even though Indiana is a gun friendly state with CCW since 1934 and I am one rabid 2nd amendment supporter; the sudden unexpected appearance of a gun causes an adrenalin spike and the hand to start towards the sidearm.

    When I first got my CCW I asked a couple state cops that came to the service station where I worked for routine maintenance etc their opinion about informing the cop in the event of getting stopped. Pete Davis (the senior of the two) just smiled and said “I don’t know; how do you feel about getting a cocked 357 magnum screwed in your left ear?” I have always informed the cop when stopped, and I was on the road for 20 years doing phone service/installations and always pushed the speed limits so I had multiple opportunities. I can honestly say informing the cop up front got me out of more than a couple justly deserved tickets, but again Indiana is a gun friendly state. If you are in some liberal armpit that is notoriously anti; then you have to make a judgment call, but for the most part I will inform.

    Not too long ago the wife was involved in a minor fender bumper, we were meeting at a restaurant after work so I got there shortly after the police had them move their vehicles off the street and into the parking lot. There was some broken glass and it looked like the wife’s front tire was low, the lady cop was standing there so I just said “Before I bend over to check the tire I want you to know I have my concealed carry permit and I am carrying on my right side”. She just said “Thanks” and went on about her business. I just think it is best to prevent a misunderstanding than to try to work it out afterwards.

  9. #23
    Member Array HoggLegg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13
    In Missouri, LEOs will know because, 1) it's an endorsement on your driver's license, or, if you went the 2nd ID route, they'll know it when they run your license, since the records are linked.

    In Texas, we are required by law to produce our CHL when carrying, and it's good practice to produce it even if not carrying. It's a courtesy and a sign of respect.
    Which is exactly why I have a Florida permit and not a Missouri. There are municipalities around here that will confiscate your weapon and you have to go to the police station and prove ownership to get it back.

  10. #24
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    My one LEO encounter (back in the day)...

    This must have happened in '97 or '98 in Chesterfield County, VA.
    <long anecdote follows>
    I am a tattooist and at the time was working for an individual who had, shall we say, an alleged history somewhere in the distant, murky past (who knows; sometimes the legends are larger than the truth). This individual apparently trusted me enough to toss me the keys to his 400 cid ('78 or so) El Camino, which was quite a step up in performance from the straight-six/collumn shift F-100 I was accustomed to driving. Needless to say I felt the need to enjoy all
    that nice horsepower and proceeded to open up the secondaries on route 60 whilst heading home after work. At the time, I was starting to look like Jim Morrison's later years (beer gut, full beard, and a haystack of hair - I think I read this analogy somewhere else in this forum).
    My handgun at that time was on the bench seat next to me and loaded.

    As I was going awfully fast, I saw the unmistakable sillouette of a Deputy's cruiser sitting in the median strip against the headlight flood of eastbound traffic in plenty of time to think, "Wow, I am really going awfully fast and this sure feels like I am exceeding the posted speed limit."... or some such words. I'm pretty sure that the next thoughts going through my head were something to the effect of, "Hmmm. What will this look like to a Sheriff's Deputy? 1. I'm definately speeding, 2. This is not my car and it belongs to... uh, this other dude, 3. My loaded gun is here, 4. and I'm not groomed or dressed for a job interview."

    It was at this point that I began rehearsing what I was going to tell my wife during my one phone call; "Hi honey. You know that building we pass on the way to buy county vehicle stickers?...".
    Before the Deputy had his door opened, I turned on the dome-light and put both hands visibly out of the driver's window (the back glass was limo-tinted). As soon as he got within ear-shot I cleared my throat and exclaimed, "I have to declare a weapon," loud enough to be heard and understood. I figured that I was already in the hole for speeding and had no idea what flags might have appeared when he ran the tags and was convinced this was soon going to look like a scene from the original film release of Vanishing Point at about the time Barry Newman's character was reaching the California border.

    I was about 32 years old at the time and when I looked up, this Deputy looked like he had just graduated high-school.
    Apparently I made a friend when I showed him my hands because he was smiling and asked me politely to hand him the weapon. In hindsight, I wished he'd asked me to step out of the vehicle and lean on the cruiser hood or something while he picked the gun off the front seat himself. I remember feeling surprised by his request, and told him something like, "OK. I'm going to pick it up with my right hand by the tip of the barrel. It's fully loaded so please be carefull with it."

    After he had disarmed me and unloaded the weapon, he then asked for license and registration and if I knew why he had pulled me over.
    "Yes sir. I'm pretty sure I was speeding and have no idea how far over I was." (I didn't.) License I had, but reg was lost somewhere in the compost of the glove box.

    After what seemed a short interval of time (the computers must have been up), the officer returned to the passenger side of the vehicle, placed the unloaded weapon in the passenger floor with ammo, and proceeded to tell me to watch my speed and have a nice evening.
    </exhaled slowly - I'm sure my finger nail beds were turning blue>
    "I will. And if you ever want a full days worth of tattoo work, it's yours!"
    </end anecdote>

    I deserved at least a speeding ticket that night. I think "reckless driving" is and was more than 20 over the limit in Virginia.
    I still maintain and drive the old F-100... and we are all safer for it.

    I have never carried in California (and plan on moving out soon!). In future encounters (the F-100 will still do 70), I plan on always courtesy informing officers as long as I'm carrying legally (and plan on getting a CCW soon after I am moved). As far as the potential for a hassle in a "gun-unfriendly" state? Well... as long as I'm carrying within the limits of the law, I plan on doing the courtesy inform. If any future encounters with LEO turn nasty as a result of my courtesy, well... isn't there an expression for this? Something like; "You can beat the rap but not the ride!"
    I believe that in First Amendment terms, this is similar to what is known as a "prior restraint"; while the "prior restraint" is illegal, the damage has been done in terms of having what is known as a "chilling effect" upon future attempts at free-speech.
    In Second Amendment terms, being truly hassled by LEOs for what are perfectly legal actions has the same effect; intimidation. Others (as well as ourselves) will probably be less likely to engage in the same completely legal actions. In this case the action is the legal right to carry.
    IOWs; If hassled for acting within my legal rights, I will, to borrow another expression, "lawyer up" in order to defend the future of those rights! (I clean up nicely in suit and tie).

    And Spyderdude; I'm glad those airbags deployed. I would never want to be the victim of a head-injury.

    (And BTW; there's a brunette LEO on horse-back in Sacramento that makes me want to jay-walk or something... ;)
    Last edited by TattooWings; August 8th, 2006 at 07:11 PM.
    "A government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims." - Ayn Rand, The Nature of Government, 1964

  11. #25
    Member Array cray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350

    Not too long ago the wife was involved in a minor fender bumper, we were meeting at a restaurant after work so I got there shortly after the police had them move their vehicles off the street and into the parking lot. There was some broken glass and it looked like the wife’s front tire was low, the lady cop was standing there so I just said “Before I bend over to check the tire I want you to know I have my concealed carry permit and I am carrying on my right side”. She just said “Thanks” and went on about her business. I just think it is best to prevent a misunderstanding than to try to work it out afterwards.
    +1 .. almost EXACTLY. I got a call from my wife, saying that a dude rear ended her. I was carrying, and really didn't consider that this was anything but a fender bender. As soon as I arrived, my wife said the !#$!@#$ was drinking and didn't have insurance. I was pissed. Well, the officer came up to me, and started tell me what was going on, and I stopped her and provided the required notification. She looked me dead in the eye, stopped talking for a few seconds, and asked if I was going to be OK with this. I told her that I'd be fine. She hesitated another beat or two and said ok ..

    I was pissed, it was a highly emotional situation, wife crying, kids upset .. in that case, I wouldn't have been surprised if she wanted me to lock my weapon up in her car, at least till the drunk was taken away. She didn't ask, and I didn't volunteer.

  12. #26
    New Member Array ArizonaCowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm
    Check your laws in AZ, as you might well be required (I don't know).
    In AZ you are not required to inform the Officer unless they ask.
    "Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here."-Captain John Parker

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    HoggLegg,

    I see you are located in MO, does MO State Law require notification, or not.

    If it does, you are not shielded from that requirement by MO, when you carry under a FL permit. You are subject to all the laws of the state you are carrying in, no matter what state your permit was issued by.

    Now, if MO does not require disclosure and you are carrying under a FL permit simply because it won't come up during a DL check, then that's perfectly OK.

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  14. #28
    Member Array HoggLegg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmike
    HoggLegg,

    I see you are located in MO, does MO State Law require notification, or not.

    If it does, you are not shielded from that requirement by MO, when you carry under a FL permit. You are subject to all the laws of the state you are carrying in, no matter what state your permit was issued by.

    Now, if MO does not require disclosure and you are carrying under a FL permit simply because it won't come up during a DL check, then that's perfectly OK.

    mm

    No we are not required to notify if we are carrying. We also do not need a permit to carry concealed on or off your person in a vehicle. So those persons don't get made by a license check but the CCW holder does.Seems kinda screwy.

  15. #29
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    In OH. We have to inform. I would do it anyway. I think it would establish an element of trust and respect. At least I hope so.... I've asked a couple of deputies, and they both said to keep your hands on the steering wheel, and the first words out of your mouth should be
    1) I have a concealed carry license, and
    2) My weapon is holstered on my right hip. ( or wherever)
    Also my concealed weapon has to be in "plain view" when I'm driving, or locked in glove compartment.
    CW

  16. #30
    Member Array symr00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm
    Why tell a police officer one is carrying, in a situation? Courtesy. Legal requirement to do so. Preservation, given that an officer might well be surprised if found out soon after. Check your laws in AZ, as you might well be required (I don't know).
    It's not required in AZ. I can understand if you are pulled over for speeding or something but if you are just hanging around the accident scene, I see no need to mention it. Also if your state mandates you notify the officer upon being pulled over, I doubt your situation would have fallen into that catagory. I'm a federal leo and could care less either way. 95% of the people I pull over are smugglers so if they're carrying concealed, they don't have a permit.

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