Son busted at Boise Hawks ball game.

This is a discussion on Son busted at Boise Hawks ball game. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Rhcmlc I know you live in Florida but each state has its rules about concealed carry. In Texas, for example, I cannot ...

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Thread: Son busted at Boise Hawks ball game.

  1. #46
    Member Array 3dfxMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhcmlc View Post
    I know you live in Florida but each state has its rules about concealed carry. In Texas, for example, I cannot bring a gun to a sporting event, a school (must be placed inside the car), inside an airport, or a hospital. I don't agree that law abiding citizens should be limited but you've got to play by their rules if you want to keep that ccw permit.
    You need to re-read the Texas CC laws. The only sporting events that are off limits are school and professional sporting events. You can carry anywhere at a school except inside buildings or in an area where a school sponsored activity is taking place, such as the parking lot where the school carnival or bake sale is going on. Airports are fine to carry in as long as you don't try to carry into the secured areas. Hospitals are only off-limits if you are given effective notice under PC 30.06 or they are part of a university.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    EDIT: Last week I went to an outing where a lot of bikers were expected to show up. The owner of the place we went to prohibited the wearing of colors (Club patches)for the event. This was done to prevent possible fights between rival clubs but was clearly a violation of their right of free speech. Was the owner wrong to do this? Would you have been outraged about this?
    No, it wasn't. The owner was well within his rights and I agree with his decision.

    The law is that the GOVERNMENT cannot infringe on your speech. It is perfectly legal for any PRIVATE ENTITY or PRIVATE PERSON to inhibit the speech of another WHILE ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mlr1m
    EDIT: Last week I went to an outing where a lot of bikers were expected to show up. The owner of the place we went to prohibited the wearing of colors (Club patches)for the event. This was done to prevent possible fights between rival clubs but was clearly a violation of their right of free speech. Was the owner wrong to do this? Would you have been outraged about this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    No, it wasn't. The owner was well within his rights and I agree with his decision.

    The law is that the GOVERNMENT cannot infringe on your speech. It is perfectly legal for any PRIVATE ENTITY or PRIVATE PERSON to inhibit the speech of another WHILE ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY.
    My point exactly. This applies to all rights. Even our cherished right to bear arms.

    Michael

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post


    but may be enough if it is a firearm related crime to lose your permit... think about that
    Exactly!! Armed Trespass is a felony in Florida, and almost an automatic revocation of your Concealed Weapons License.....I choose my battles more wisely.
    Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.

  6. #50
    Member Array Rhcmlc's Avatar
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    I've read the Texas CC laws. As posted, I said guns cannot be carried IN a school, IN a sporting event (for example baseball stadium, nfl, etc. etc). I didn't say it couldnt be carried in a school parking lot. I DID say it must be placed in your car IF you go INTO a school.
    "You cannot invade the mainland United States.
    There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"
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    Sig P238/Sig 1911 Ultra/Beretta PX4 Storm/Kimber Ultra Carry II

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    I hate these stupid rules about not being able to carry in a stadium and such. What makes it any different than other places? People who go through the process to legally carry have a LOT of screening to go through and I dare say are the most level headed and responsible people out there. No game is going to cause them to "snap" and kill people. Just stupid IMO.
    Um, not necessarily, there are several states, including mine,where you can exercise your 2A rights with no training and just a basic background check for felonies.

    And you might not have ever seen the soccer riots in Europe, but they kill each other over the games without firearms. In THIS country, adults get violent over sports all the time. Even with no intention to draw, if you get into a conflict....you might end up having to draw...or having someone else take your weapon.

    I'm not saying you shouldnt be able to carry in such situations, just that your arguments arent legitimate.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Private property rights trump your right to defend yourself. They have the choice to not allow firearms, and you have the choice to not spend money with them. You are not forced to be there. It is as simple as that.
    That is an opinion.

    In my opinion, my safety, my life, trump ANY 'property' rights. If my weapon is concealed and they dont know about it, it's no more of an inconvenience or danger to them than my opinions on religion or politics which they might also find offensive...but since they dont any of know those, they arent an issue. If I voice my opinions, they can ask me to leave. Same if they see my firearm. And I will leave.
    noway2 likes this.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    My business is open to the public, but I assure you that once you walk through my doors, you will abide by my rules.
    OR, I'll leave when you have a reason to ask me to.

    If my weapon is concealed properly.....??? And if it's not, I will leave without disruption of any kind.
    WHEC724 likes this.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diddle View Post
    Actually that is a good point even though it may seem offensive to extreme 2nd ammendment people. Skating rink here, privately owned, does not allow guns due to the crowd it draws; Mostly children. I don't skate so it makes no difference to me. However, it is a low-light environment and taking a shot at someone in self defence certainly has the potential of a complete desaster.

    No intention what so ever of starting a war here. Just a personal comment and nothing more.

    Best!
    I do not understand how the children are in more danger because you are carrying. You already recognize the dangers of firing in a crowd. So you wouldnt, correct? However that doesnt stop criminals. YOu'll either use good judgement or you wont.

    That's what rights are about....using them responsibly **but not having any control over the other Americans hopefully doing the same.***

    I know it's a tired cliche, but those kids are in more danger every day from irresponsible drivers than from irresponsible gun owners (and even safer from criminals than from cars).

    Please see my signature..."Freedom doesnt mean safe, it means free."
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twoglocks View Post
    I have a gun vault under the sit attached with steel cable for the situation like that, I doubt if BG carry the wire cutter with him
    As ex-LE, I assure you, they often do.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  12. #56
    Member Array 3dfxMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhcmlc View Post
    I've read the Texas CC laws. As posted, I said guns cannot be carried IN a school, IN a sporting event (for example baseball stadium, nfl, etc. etc). I didn't say it couldnt be carried in a school parking lot. I DID say it must be placed in your car IF you go INTO a school.
    In addition to reading the Texas CC laws, you should also re-read your post that I referenced. That was not what you said in that post. The sporting event one is wrong even in your recently modified version.

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonker1986 View Post
    again, its private property and a well know fact that no carry allowed. I actually carried there a lot before I knew their rules.....but concealed, is concealed.

    yes, if they ask you to leave and you refuse, its now armed trespass.....a felony.
    If you are careless enough to get made, it would be even dumber not to leave, yes?

    It's that way here in WA....the signs dont hold the wt of the law, but if you are observed to be carrying, are asked to leave, and dont...then you can be charged with trespass.

    Seems like a no-brainer to me. Just leave.

    Edit: I apologize. Anyone can slip up and get 'made.' My point was more that if you've made that mistake, own up to it and leave politely.
    Last edited by 9MMare; September 15th, 2011 at 11:24 PM.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timezoneguy View Post
    The security guards were not armed. So here we have a group of people closely packed together un armed and security is not armed. As we all have heard, bad folks don't care about signs. Looks like a disater waiting for a bad guy to take advantage of a poorly thought out decsion. Who protects me if a BG starts shooting? If you prevent me from protecting myself then who does. I hope for never another public shooting but we all know better.Question , who is really in charge of my protection if you prevent me from doing so????? ".
    While I can understand wanting to be armed in travelling, when parking, etc...crowded venues are very bad places to consider using a firearm. If it's on you, fine (if legal). But the use of a gun in crowds is a poor judgement for the most part.

    And the thought that normal average security guards are carrying them in the same environment? Just gives me chills.

    Yes, there is alot of violence in sporting event venues, but not much of it is gun-related. So if you want to protect yourself there....come prepared with OTHER means to defend yourself. (I didnt say leave your gun home, but it's not likely to be needed NOR appropriate in a violent encounter in a crowd at a sporting event.)
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post

    but may be enough if it is a firearm related crime to lose your permit... think about that
    Based upon my previous research, trespassing, even if the issue is the sidearm, has no bearing on the continued validity of a permit in VA. And personally, my VA permit is expired but i have a non-res permit that is valid.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  16. #60
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    OK, after wading through much off-topic commentary, it seems to me that the security personnel politely handled a violation of private property owner rules. The OP's son missed seeing a sign, and failed to conceal, and was only slightly inconvenienced by being asked to remove the weapon from the premises, then was allowed back into the place to finish watching the game. No government regulation or infringement was involved here. In the absence of any government, one exercising control over one's territory is older than civilization. If I want to proceed past these notches in this tree, or this pile of stones, I do so at the pleasure of the guy who notched the tree or gathered the stones. If he returns the favor when he reaches my notched trees or piles of stones, then we are good neighbors, and someday our descendants might invent civilization, and establish private property laws based on our respect of each others' notched trees and piles of stones.

    If my stone-age neighbor will not let me carry my spear and stone axe past his pile of stones, I would respect that. When I manage to get lucky during the hunt, however, he will not benefit from any excess meat I may have to share. I will share it with another neighbor, who welcomes me with my spear and stone axe.

    No, I do not see government intrusion here, just poor concealment practices, and exercise of private property rights.

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