Write up on Carson City IHOP - Page 9

Write up on Carson City IHOP

This is a discussion on Write up on Carson City IHOP within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The second theme I pick up here is the Zorro image. Coming to the rescue and being a big public hero. Anyone that has actually ...

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Thread: Write up on Carson City IHOP

  1. #121
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    The second theme I pick up here is the Zorro image. Coming to the rescue and being a big public hero.
    Anyone that has actually had to save somebody's life would find this sentence insulting and without basic understanding.

    You could ask a thousand "hero's" why they did what they did and they would basically say the same thing. "I just did what anyone would have done"" I just did what had to be done" "I was just doing my job."

    Anyone with a brain would never do it for the chance to be "a big public hero." That is for wantabees that would never be able to step up past their fantasies.

    Just because one person believes that risking ones own life to save another is stupid does not mean that person is a glory hound. It is what it is and nothing more.

    "I just did what had to be done" that is the extent of the elation.

    Just because you would not step up does not mean that there is something wrong with those that would.

    "Oh an experienced LEO could make that shot about one time in five. A typical private citizen, about one in fifty."
    This is an amazingly inaccurate perception. On the most part LEO's are really not that well trained. As far as "typical civilian" that comes down to making a choice to be "typical." You can become whatever you want to be. If you want to be one hundred times better than the vast majority of cops out there, it is not that hard to do. It just comes down to asking yourself "how good is good enough?" Being a "CCWer only" means that you have made the decision to not be very good.

    It takes much more than a permit to be squared away, just like it takes much more than a badge to be squared away.

    This is a very personal decision and labels should not really be used. Whether you step up or you don't step up all comes down to confidence. If you have put the work in then the confidence will be there for you........and if you have not put the work in then you have made the decision on how good you think you need to be.

    The "never good enough" folks have a very different perspective than the "Why would I need to know that?" folks.


  2. #122
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    So WalkerAK74M a poster on Warrior Talk posted
    Well gentlemen, back to the IHOP in Carson City.... My buddy in the Sheriffs Dept just informed me there was a CCW holder IN the restaurant at the time of the shooting. Another man of inaction. You know I'm sorry, but I couldn't just sit there and watch it happen....
    So you are now not 75-100 yds away, you are now inside and he is coming to you, What do you do? Set there like the guy actually did or do you engage?

    If I am inside and he walks in shooting I don't think there would be anyway I could NOT fight back.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  3. #123
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Engage as quickly and accurately as possible.

    Does it say if the ccw holder was actually carrying?
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  4. #124
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    There or more problems than the CCW holders in the IHOP.

    The folks in the IHOP who just set there when the shooting started and did not exit out the kitchen door or some other exit are a wonder to me.

    The same holds true for the NG troops in IHOP.

    IMHO if you can not fight due to being disarmed or out of physical reach of gun man, then get down or better yet get out right now and show the way for other to exit.

    You can always come back later and pay the bill.
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
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    I love only that which they defend.
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  5. #125
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Guantes, all I know about the CCW holder is what was in WalkerAK74M post
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  6. #126
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    He probably had a NAA mini revolver on a belt buckle
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  7. #127
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    So now we have a post on an internet forum regarding unverifed information from an un-named source stating nothing more than an un-named person had a permit.
    And?
    We don't know if this person even was armed.
    I find it curious that the day of the incident the media had the information on BBQ guy and his carry permit but somehow missed someone right in the middle of the whole thing who supposedly had a permit and may or may not have been armed at the time.
    Without any kind of verifiable facts to back it up (name pf permit holder or name of source on sheriff's dept) I am not considering it credible.
    Mike1956 likes this.
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  8. #128
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Did anyone else note that the salon shooter in So Cal was wearing body armor? Guy had no control over his anger, but still kept it together enough to load up several weapons and put on body armor.

    It seems that it's very reasonable to consider that even in these random public shootings, a shooter can be wearing armor.

    So here in Carson City...a head shot at 100 yards? Not me.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  9. #129
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    Video released!

    video of the gunman in action released by police, just saw it on Fox, here is link to site that has it:
    http://www.ktvn.com/story/15958255/new-video-released
    this video is edited to not shot the lady getting shot in the head while at her motorcycle at almost point blank range, her helmet saved her life

    this one is a video screen recorded on a camera with audio that is not very good but shows more video and pictures than the one above
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...OP-attack.html

    he was walking quite briskly towards the Ihop while firing, if you weren't on the same line with him (facing him straight on or directly at his back) in the parking lot the shot would be real difficult with him walking between all the cars like he was, background, etc, if you didn't have a rifle
    looks to me like if you were not on the same angle with him your only choice would have been to run in to get closer but might not be in time to do much, he was blasting away

    I couldn't have just stayed behind cover, as a cop I would be moving in to get some rounds on him at a minimum, but that's me so don't flame me if you wouldn't do it, to each their own
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  10. #130
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    64Zebra, I've seen at least one of the videos. Wow. That shooter was very active, always moving and he focused on things happening around him (didnt have tunnel vision on a single purpose).

    He had all those cars in between. He was aggressive and would come after anyone shooting at him.

    Sorry, but taking him on would be more than standing and aiming. If your first shot wasnt perfect (headshot) at 100 yds)....you'd have one pissed off, focused, & prepared shooter to deal with.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #131
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    64Zebra, I've seen at least one of the videos. Wow. That shooter was very active, always moving and he focused on things happening around him (didnt have tunnel vision on a single purpose).

    He had all those cars in between. He was aggressive and would come after anyone shooting at him.

    Sorry, but taking him on would be more than standing and aiming. If your first shot wasnt perfect (headshot) at 100 yds)....you'd have one pissed off, focused, & prepared shooter to deal with.
    Your opinion of him is very different (complete opposite) from those that have been in harms way. Those in the know feel the video proves how easy he would have been to take.

    Since he killed himself before there was any resistance against him.....some resistance could have stopped it much earlier. BTW, the facts show that it was not a 100 yard shot from BBQ man.....it was half of that distance.......and a man ready to kill himself, a shot to COM would proabaly have sufficed. Closing the distance has always been an option.

    We do not need to try to make this event look impossible to clear our conscious for not responding. It was not impossible for the right person with some decent training and willingness to act.

  12. #132
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweatnbullets View Post
    Your opinion of him is very different (complete opposite) from those that have been in harms way. Those in the know feel the video proves how easy he would have been to take.

    Since he killed himself before there was any resistance against him.....some resistance could have stopped it much earlier. BTW, the facts show that it was not a 100 yard shot from BBQ man.....it was half of that distance.......and a man ready to kill himself, a shot to COM would proabaly have sufficed. Closing the distance has always been an option.

    We do not need to try to make this event look impossible to clear our conscious for not responding. It was not impossible for the right person with some decent training and willingness to act.
    I'd really like to see some psychological substantiation for oh, maybe ANY of your post. The shooter, observers, possible concealed carriers, etc.
    tacman605 likes this.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  13. #133
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Roger, for most on this site they are right it would be impossible for them to stop this guy and always will be. To do so you have to try and most would not and never will.

    Now will come all the excuses as to why I'm wrong, but some will some won't and it is good to know which you are. If you won't does not mean you can't but you need to change. The question is will you and do you want to? Any thing else is an excuse and there really is nothing wrong with that just know it for what it is.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweatnbullets View Post
    Your opinion of him is very different (complete opposite) from those that have been in harms way. Those in the know feel the video proves how easy he would have been to take.

    Since he killed himself before there was any resistance against him.....some resistance could have stopped it much earlier. BTW, the facts show that it was not a 100 yard shot from BBQ man.....it was half of that distance.......and a man ready to kill himself, a shot to COM would proabaly have sufficed. Closing the distance has always been an option.

    We do not need to try to make this event look impossible to clear our conscious for not responding. It was not impossible for the right person with some decent training and willingness to act.
    The right person with some decent training was not on the scene. I have seen a picture of Mr. Swagler, and if he was carrying anything more than a mouse gun, I would be very surprised. He certainly was not going to quickly close and engage.

  15. #135
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I'd really like to see some psychological substantiation for oh, maybe ANY of your post. The shooter, observers, possible concealed carriers, etc.
    Right back at you on that one.....show us your psychological substantiation. Easy to ask for things when you do not provide them.

    IMHO, he was tunneled visioned, he was not aware what was going on around him, his movement was not efficient or effective. Since the distance has been cut down to the actual 50 yards that would be about 10 seconds to get to him if there were not many obstacles.

    This was not an impossible situation to get involved in if you train well with your carry gun.

    The right person with some decent training was not on the scene. I have seen a picture of Mr. Swagler, and if he was carrying anything more than a mouse gun, I would be very surprised. He certainly was not going to quickly close and engage.
    Agreed, but as an individual most of us have the ability to be as good as we want to be. Many CCWers make the decision to not be very good (skill set wise and gear wise) and just because that low standard has been chosen does not make the situation impossible.......only impossible due to self imposed limitations.

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