Last night situation..

This is a discussion on Last night situation.. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by dbw8906 Amen! How soon we forget about all the stupid mistakes we made as kids. Heaven forbid one of your kids make ...

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Thread: Last night situation..

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbw8906 View Post
    Amen! How soon we forget about all the stupid mistakes we made as kids. Heaven forbid one of your kids make a child like mistake and ends up with brain damage from some over eager carny who thinks he is Chuck Norris.

    World of difference in a gang banger and this kind of thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Sadly though, if the kid hasn't learned by age 18 that childish can kicking tantrums aren't always going to profit him, he will undoubtedly encounter some painful real life lessons in the real world. Hopefully none of those lessons will end in brain damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by dbw8906 View Post
    I mean why not just shoot the kid then? I mean if you really want him to suffer wouldn't that work best? Maybe the next time some child of yours or maybe even a niece or nephew steals a pack of bubble gum you would rally for breaking a couple of their finger. I mean if physical pain is the ultimate criminal behavior modification program then just chop the whole darn hand off. I bet that 10yo would never steal again.

    Physical violence for kicking over a garbage can is not the answer. Throw him in the back for the squad car, haul him in front of a judge, make him (and or his parents) pay restitution, make him pick up trash on the side of the road, or better yet make him pick up the garbage at the haunted house! But letting some haunted house worker (probley another high strung teen) pummel him is not the answer.

    Justice "the Duke" style is not what our founders indented.
    I didn't say I want him to suffer. I just stated what he may have to face in the real world as a result of his behavior. Some kids are taught what is acceptable behavior at home. Others learn some of those things the hard way. Right or wrong it's the way it works.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Why were you even there at midnight at an attraction for drunk teens? If you are mature enough to carry a firearm, you are mature enough to find more suitable entertainements.








    ^^^^Thats silly^^^^^^^^^^^



    Who puts an age limit on something like that.

    I have heard of people in their 20's , even older, going.

    The events of what happened could have happened anywhere, so, IMHO, wy he was there is irrelavent.



    __________________________________________________ _____________________________________________
    I think the OP did good under the circumstances.

    If you feel the youth was treated unjustly, as was stated go to the police station and read the report, and give testimony as to what you saw.

    That may/may not have any influence on what the outcome will be, based on what they said he did prior to the trashcan getting kicked.

    But for a 20-30 year old to jump him, pummel him to the ground, and repeatedly punch him, seems at the outset, rather unjustified to me, for kicking a garbage can over, and roughing up one of the employees for jumping him inside the haunted house.

    It has been many years sine I have been to one{28-30 years} but it was to my understanding that the employees were not to have any physical contact with the customers.
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

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  4. #33
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringXDsub View Post
    So, I was outside the haunted house sitting on the curb while about 100 other people were in line. All of the sudden a customer kicks over a trash can and one of the haunted house employees(age 25-30s) grabs the kid(probably 18) and throws him to the cement face first twice. Than gets on top of this kid holding his throat and punching him 3 times. The kid was walking away the entire time and did not want to be in the fight and no one was standing up so I(in a calm, relaxed manner.. not aggressive) walked over there and started telling him to "Calm down and stop, the kids done". I never got physical because I didn't want to esculate and I was carrying. Another employee gets in my face swearing like crazy so I just backed off but the beating had stopped.
    While it seemed to have ended okay, the real question in my mind is what you would have done had they continued beating on the kid? This is a situation I struggle with in my mind. I have such vivid memories of being bullied as a child. I was often held down while several bullies beat on me and I did absolutely zero to deserve it. If I saw something like that happening, I don't think I'd have the self-control not to intervene, regardless of the consequences to me. I realize this case was probably not a case of bullying, but the question still remains. If nobody else ever came, and the beating didn't stop. Then what?
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

  5. #34
    Member Array gunsnroses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    While it seemed to have ended okay, the real question in my mind is what you would have done had they continued beating on the kid? This is a situation I struggle with in my mind. I have such vivid memories of being bullied as a child. I was often held down while several bullies beat on me and I did absolutely zero to deserve it. If I saw something like that happening, I don't think I'd have the self-control not to intervene, regardless of the consequences to me. I realize this case was probably not a case of bullying, but the question still remains. If nobody else ever came, and the beating didn't stop. Then what?
    In all seriousness, that just breaks my heart!

  6. #35
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    Some people strap on a gun and magically, they end up rescuing every damsel in distress.

    Things can sure get ugly doing that.
    wmhawth likes this.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  7. #36
    Member Array SpringXDsub's Avatar
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    To clear things up a little bit. The LEO at the scene was at his patrol car around the corner(not sure what he was doing, but he had no idea what was happening). So he came sprinting over to the parking lot when he found out what was going on.

    Um, that is kind of what I was trying to figure out. I'm not sure how far i'd like to get involved whether I was carrying or not. I would have done more for sure if I wasn't carrying. But I didn't want to get to involved because of my CCW. All the workers there were much older. The guy screaming at me was much larger than me and older than me so I wasn't going to get physical. I'm not sure why people are saying "just because you strap on a gun....". I would have gone just as far or farther if I didn't have one on.

  8. #37
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    I'm not saying you shouldn't rescue damsels, or vandals... I'm just saying that when you're the one person there with a gun, it tends to complicate things.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #38
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    Good call on your part and I may well have done the same thing. There is no way I would get any closer while carrying. Things can easily and quickly go south in the blink of an eye and I’ve seen it happen. I was faced with a dilemma last year when I witnessed a guy kicking a gal on the side of the road. The next day I purchased an OC device and have been carrying it ever since. Still have a dart taser on my wish list as I feel it would be more effective.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    "During his egress he kicks over a trash can and then the other employees catch up to him and in defense of maybe their friend, niece, nephew or whatever go after him."

    At this point it is clearly not defense, but assault. Your argument will be stronger if you stick to the facts.
    tcox4freedom likes this.

  11. #40
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringXDsub
    Um, that is kind of what I was trying to figure out. I'm not sure how far i'd like to get involved whether I was carrying or not. I would have done more for sure if I wasn't carrying. But I didn't want to get to involved because of my CCW. All the workers there were much older. The guy screaming at me was much larger than me and older than me so I wasn't going to get physical. I'm not sure why people are saying "just because you strap on a gun....". I would have gone just as far or farther if I didn't have one on.
    Ok, so this situation ended well. Lets say, for discussion sake, that the guy who got in your face decided to start shoving you. Lets even say, you took it, and backed off, and this guy keeps coming. What do you do? At this point, you have already inserted yourself into the situation, backing away isn't an option, and your carrying. How do you de-escalate the situation or do you even de-escalate it?

    Looking at things after the fact, which admittedly is something you wouldn't have been able to do, if you do draw in the situation, when the cops come around the corner you would be a MWAG.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Verbally deescalate, oc, hands on or run.
    Bubbiesdad likes this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  13. #42
    Member Array gunsnroses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    Ok, so this situation ended well. Lets say, for discussion sake, that the guy who got in your face decided to start shoving you. Lets even say, you took it, and backed off, and this guy keeps coming. What do you do? At this point, you have already inserted yourself into the situation, backing away isn't an option, and your carrying. How do you de-escalate the situation or do you even de-escalate it?

    Looking at things after the fact, which admittedly is something you wouldn't have been able to do, if you do draw in the situation, when the cops come around the corner you would be a MWAG.
    In Florida (given the facts above) you are still authorized to use deadly force as long as you meet the "fear for your life or great bodily harm" standard.

    776.041 Use of force by aggressor.
    --The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

  14. #43
    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I'm not saying you shouldn't rescue damsels, or vandals... I'm just saying that when you're the one person there with a gun, it tends to complicate things.
    Regardless of how complicated things can get I still feel like I have a duty to do something when I see an obviously bad situation going down. You obviously have to be smart, and I think the OP handled it well....but staying out of it is just not something I think I could do.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post



    Regardless of how complicated things can get I still feel like I have a duty to do something when I see an obviously bad situation going down. You obviously have to be smart, and I think the OP handled it well....but staying out of it is just not something I think I could do.
    Back when I was younger and foolish I saw a very drunk lady walking in and out of traffic. While a co-worker called the police, I decided to go help her out of the street, lest she be injured. Not only was she still in the street when the police arrived, I was sitting on the curb with a broken nose and a mild concussion. Thus ended my fantasy of saving the day.

    There's NO way I am jumping into an altercation involving multiple miscreants all by my lonesome.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    While most here try to avoid confrontations, to believe that a situation will never arise where one has to go hands on while wearing a weapon is naive.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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