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Last night situation..

6K views 68 replies 32 participants last post by  DefConGun 
#1 ·
Hey everyone,
I'll try to keep it decently short. But I had a minor situation last night and am not sure how I handled it..

The story-
A group of friends and I went to haunted house in our downtown area(not bad, but not great area) at around midnight last night. I was carrying because of the location and when we get to the front door of this place they had the 30.06 signs. So I said that they could go and I was going to wait outside(I was fine with that, hate them stupid things anyways).

So, I was outside the haunted house sitting on the curb while about 100 other people were in line. All of the sudden a customer kicks over a trash can and one of the haunted house employees(age 25-30s) grabs the kid(probably 18) and throws him to the cement face first twice. Than gets on top of this kid holding his throat and punching him 3 times. The kid was walking away the entire time and did not want to be in the fight and no one was standing up so I(in a calm, relaxed manner.. not aggressive) walked over there and started telling him to "Calm down and stop, the kids done". I never got physical because I didn't want to esculate and I was carrying. Another employee gets in my face swearing like crazy so I just backed off but the beating had stopped. The police officer ran around the corner and arressted the kid and the employee got off scotch free. I don't know what happened before the parking lot started, but the fight was over and the kid was leaving so I am a little upset that the employee got a "pat on the back from the officer".

The officer never asked for statements even though he didn't see what happened. He just believed the employees and I stayed out of it from that point. (I figure the less LEO interaction in that situation was best).

Anyways, sorry for the long story. But what should have I done? I felt really bad for this kid because he was in a very submissive state and just getting beat on so I felt like I had to do something.

Thanks all-
Nick.
 
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#2 ·
You could have really inserted yourself into a very bad situation.

While noble as it is to intervene in a fight, the wise thing to do would have been to stay clear of it, and call some authorities. I know you wanted to do the right thing, but this time I believe you got lucky and came out unscathed. Too many times the "good Samaritan" gets whooped for his effort.
 
#6 ·
wmhawth, supposedly the kid hit one of the workers in the haunted house when he got jumped. So he got kicked out which is why he was walking away and kicked the trash can cause he was mad. I don't think he deserved what he got though. And thanks for the inputs. I know several things could have gone really bad. But I can't just sit back when that happens. Any others though? Good or bad i'd like to hear it. I am new to CC and want to make wise decisions.. thanks
-Nick
 
#7 ·
One dark Halloween night, I went to a haunted house a family was hosting close to where I grew up. I was maybe 7 or 8. They had a bunch of scarecrows with plastic pumpkins for heads sitting in folding chairs all around the front. I thought it would be funny to punch one of the heads off, so I did it. I heard a woman inside the doorway say "Now why did he do that?" and I thought that was funny too.

They thought it was funny when the one of the scarecrows sitting by the door was her husband sitting perfectly still, and grabbed me when I tried walking by and scared me so bad I peed.

I guess the moral of this story is don't be jacking around with Haunted Houses.
 
#8 · (Edited)
SpringXDsub said:
All of the sudden a customer kicks over a trash can and one of the haunted house employees(age 25-30s) grabs the kid(probably 18) and throws him to the cement face first twice. Than gets on top of this kid holding his throat and punching him 3 times. <snip> Another employee gets in my face swearing like crazy so I just backed off but the beating had stopped. The police officer ran around the corner and arressted the kid and the employee got off scotch free.
Me thinks that there has to be more to this story than you are aware of. A full blow assault (to the cement face first twice, holding his throat and punching him 3 times) is NOT a justified response for kicking over the garbage can.

I personally, think that you did an excellent job of walking a very fine line regarding your civic duty on the scene, even with having another, um, jerk, swearing in your face. You don't know what happened to start the incident, so it is dangerous ground to get too involved. If you really believe that what you witnessed is wrong, if you contact the authoritative police department or DA's office you may be able to get a statement on record. If you do so, be sure to remain absolutely factual and keep the emotion out of it to the extent possible.
 
#13 ·
Me thinks that there has to be more to this story than you are aware of. A full blow assault (to the cement face first twice, holding his throat and punching him 3 times) is NOT a justified response for kicking over the garbage can.
There was more to the story, the OP failed to tell you about it.

I also thought that there was more to the event than what the OP knew about. Often times we only see a part of the story and when we react to it, we are inserting ourselves into an event with blinders on, etc. Not know being completely aware of what is going on means you don't necessarily have a full idea of how motivated the agressor is and this may prove to be a fatal error. If you think you're breaking up a simple fight, for example, you may be surprised when the event escalates to deadly force because the aggressor is actually preventing a horrific crime from happening, etc. I'm not saying its okay for someone to beat someone to death in the street but you really need to be sure things are going too far before you intervene.
 
#9 ·
Its always a sticky situation whenever you intervene in other people's affairs. I think you did well with this situation but I also think the situation could have just as easily taken on a soured twist. It sounds from your reiteration that the guard had taken matters in an extreme direction and there is something to the Edmund Burke quote that says that evil triumphs when good men do nothing, etc. From your post, I'm not sure how invested you were in handling this conflict. You may want to consider beforehand how far you're willing to take things before you act if you didn't do so last night. Also, you if you haven't already done so, you may want to consider getting a lawyer on retainer so if something happens in the future and you do get involved in an escalated affair, you will automatically have someone in your corner. From your experience last night, you have already seen how easy it is for you or anyone to get involved in a sticky situation at a moment's notice.

Glad things turned out well for you.


Take care,
DCG
 
#15 ·
I would suggest that you contact the kid, whose address will be on the police blotter, and offer to give a statement which he can use.

Then offer to appear as a witness if it goes to court.

I have been involved as a witness in two events in which that offer prevented a charge by the cops.
 
#16 ·
All of the sudden a customer kicks over a trash can and one of the haunted house employees(age 25-30s) grabs the kid(probably 18) and throws him to the cement face first twice. Than gets on top of this kid holding his throat and punching him 3 times.

Thanks all-
Nick.
I would have sat back and enjoyed the show:hand10:

I HATE the behavior of so many of the "yut" today (I know, all old fogies have said that through the ages). I'll bet the kid learned a couple things about proper behavior in public :congrats:
 
#17 ·
I would have given the Officer a statement anyway..... at least offerred it and told him why. If he didn't take your statement, then the officer is not doing his due diligence.
 
#32 ·
^^^^Thats silly^^^^^^^^^^^



Who puts an age limit on something like that.

I have heard of people in their 20's , even older, going.

The events of what happened could have happened anywhere, so, IMHO, wy he was there is irrelavent.



_______________________________________________________________________________________________
I think the OP did good under the circumstances.

If you feel the youth was treated unjustly, as was stated go to the police station and read the report, and give testimony as to what you saw.

That may/may not have any influence on what the outcome will be, based on what they said he did prior to the trashcan getting kicked.

But for a 20-30 year old to jump him, pummel him to the ground, and repeatedly punch him, seems at the outset, rather unjustified to me, for kicking a garbage can over, and roughing up one of the employees for jumping him inside the haunted house.

It has been many years sine I have been to one{28-30 years} but it was to my understanding that the employees were not to have any physical contact with the customers.
 
#20 ·
Hey everyone,
I don't know what happened before the parking lot started
You have determined the most valuable piece of information already.

You are not law enforcement, you have a firearm primarily for protection of self and loved ones. Injecting yourself into any situation that you did not witness the start of is not wise.

Things are not always (read rarely) what they appear to be.

Kudos on backing out as soon as you did but do yourself a favor and next event ask yourself a few more questions before stepping in.
 
#23 ·
I'd call the LEO Super on duty and let him know what you saw. The kid hit a worker when he got scared. Maybe a reflex, maybe being a jerk. Who knows. Have we all seen this happen on "America's Funniest Home Videos" a few times? He kicked a trash can over. Big deal. If these are the facts, and he was retreating, he certainly did not deserve what was possibly a Felony assault by another worker.
 
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#26 ·
Amen! How soon we forget about all the stupid mistakes we made as kids. Heaven forbid one of your kids make a child like mistake and ends up with brain damage from some over eager carny who thinks he is Chuck Norris.

World of difference in a gang banger and this kind of thing.
 
#28 ·
With that many people standing in line, it's a pretty good bet that at least one of them was able to capture video of the scuffle.

My question to the OP: Would you have tried to intervene if you were unarmed?
 
#30 ·
Wow

I mean why not just shoot the kid then? I mean if you really want him to suffer wouldn't that work best? Maybe the next time some child of yours or maybe even a niece or nephew steals a pack of bubble gum you would rally for breaking a couple of their finger. I mean if physical pain is the ultimate criminal behavior modification program then just chop the whole darn hand off. I bet that 10yo would never steal again

All of 8 big ole posts and you come out swinging. First lets look at it this way. According to the OP the kid committed battery on an employee and was kicked out/leaving the scene. During his egress he kicks over a trash can and then the other employees catch up to him and in defense of maybe their friend, niece, nephew or whatever go after him. Now suppose it was your son, daughter, niece, nephew or whatever the kid hit to begin with? Are you going to let him simply walk away?
The OP stated the officer came around the corner is it possible he was after the kid for the original battery? No one knows at this point with the limited information available.

He was not attacked because he kicked over the garbage can he was apparently attacked for hitting an employee. The OP stated the guy who jumped on the kid was not a high strung teen but a grown man 25-30 so there is a little difference there. Since the employee was not arrested then one can take away from this that there is much more to the story that the OP did not witness possibly even the officer who may have been inside saying "Stop him" and since we do not know how badly the other person was hurt inside the HH you might want to back up and regroup.
 
#33 ·
So, I was outside the haunted house sitting on the curb while about 100 other people were in line. All of the sudden a customer kicks over a trash can and one of the haunted house employees(age 25-30s) grabs the kid(probably 18) and throws him to the cement face first twice. Than gets on top of this kid holding his throat and punching him 3 times. The kid was walking away the entire time and did not want to be in the fight and no one was standing up so I(in a calm, relaxed manner.. not aggressive) walked over there and started telling him to "Calm down and stop, the kids done". I never got physical because I didn't want to esculate and I was carrying. Another employee gets in my face swearing like crazy so I just backed off but the beating had stopped.
While it seemed to have ended okay, the real question in my mind is what you would have done had they continued beating on the kid? This is a situation I struggle with in my mind. I have such vivid memories of being bullied as a child. I was often held down while several bullies beat on me and I did absolutely zero to deserve it. If I saw something like that happening, I don't think I'd have the self-control not to intervene, regardless of the consequences to me. I realize this case was probably not a case of bullying, but the question still remains. If nobody else ever came, and the beating didn't stop. Then what?
 
#34 ·
While it seemed to have ended okay, the real question in my mind is what you would have done had they continued beating on the kid? This is a situation I struggle with in my mind. I have such vivid memories of being bullied as a child. I was often held down while several bullies beat on me and I did absolutely zero to deserve it. If I saw something like that happening, I don't think I'd have the self-control not to intervene, regardless of the consequences to me. I realize this case was probably not a case of bullying, but the question still remains. If nobody else ever came, and the beating didn't stop. Then what?
In all seriousness, that just breaks my heart!
 
#35 ·
Some people strap on a gun and magically, they end up rescuing every damsel in distress.

Things can sure get ugly doing that.
 
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#36 ·
To clear things up a little bit. The LEO at the scene was at his patrol car around the corner(not sure what he was doing, but he had no idea what was happening). So he came sprinting over to the parking lot when he found out what was going on.

Um, that is kind of what I was trying to figure out. I'm not sure how far i'd like to get involved whether I was carrying or not. I would have done more for sure if I wasn't carrying. But I didn't want to get to involved because of my CCW. All the workers there were much older. The guy screaming at me was much larger than me and older than me so I wasn't going to get physical. I'm not sure why people are saying "just because you strap on a gun....". I would have gone just as far or farther if I didn't have one on.
 
#37 ·
I'm not saying you shouldn't rescue damsels, or vandals... I'm just saying that when you're the one person there with a gun, it tends to complicate things.
 
#43 ·
[HR][/HR]

Regardless of how complicated things can get I still feel like I have a duty to do something when I see an obviously bad situation going down. You obviously have to be smart, and I think the OP handled it well....but staying out of it is just not something I think I could do.
 
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