This is a discussion on Packing.org update within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Packing.org is back on line as of 10 Aug 06. I went the site earlier this evening and found it up and running, but with ...
August 11th, 2006 02:31 AM
Packing.org is back on line as of 10 Aug 06. I went the site earlier this evening and found it up and running, but with a message from the "boss" about his site. Here it is...
"I, Mark Solomon, the owner of packing.org, have gone through another chapter in my life this past month. It is beneficial to explain to the packing.org community.
As little time as I had in the past few years with my job, I will have less in the next three, as I have just started law school, which is an all time encompassing venture, as I'm sure many packing.org's readers already know.
I've resigned from my job, am selling my house, and have moved to another city. Just this week, classes have begun, and I'm trying to organize everything to be able to make the next three years as amazing as they can be.
What does this mean to packing.org? State administrators are going to be heavily relied upon to update their state pages. I have called for and received many offers to administrate state pages, and this weekend, I will be awarding these jobs to their new lucky (?) volunteer administrators.
If I'm lucky, I will find a person with enough time to function as a daily/weekly volunteer manager to "police" the state pages and answer questions. This person will be able to teach and help the state administrators, as I have not had the time, and will certainly have less time for the next three years. It is thursday, and I have at least one full book to read and at least one paper to write before monday, and there's still tomorrow to add to this list. I am in the class of May 2009...a full-time student...again.
If I can make updates to this process here, I will, but those who volunteered and are chosen to be administrators, you will hear from me my email this weekend."
"... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane
August 11th, 2006 03:08 AM
This could be an improvment for the site. Mark obviously did not have the time to update and administer the site as he did in the past. Maybe it will be once again what it was.
I wish him well. Though I'm not sure the world "needs" another lawyer.
Last edited by TN_Mike; August 12th, 2006 at 03:05 AM.
August 11th, 2006 03:50 AM
The day after I joined 'packing.org', I deleted it from my favorites. One of the first thread I found was was ridiculously anti-law enforcement. The poster spoke of shooting police officers if they made the mistake of confronting him in his home. The internet is too full of keyboard commandos who actively seek confrontation. No thanks. I have enough stress at work. I don't need it in my home.
August 11th, 2006 04:26 AM
No ill feelings towards Packing.org ,
but I will rely on http://www.handgunlaw.us for my legal information.
And as far as Forums go , this is one of my TOP Favorites.
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!http://www.handgunlaw.us
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
August 11th, 2006 09:15 AM
AKsrule, just said it the best !. AS far as I am concerned though THIS
is THE BEST Site on the net. Just my opinion of course.
quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
August 11th, 2006 09:29 AM
I used to read the gun talk threads off on on until I found this site.
Seemed like there were way to many arm chair commandos posting. I prefer moderated sites. I appreciate the time and effort that that moderators put in here and other sites I visit. Thanks guys and gals!
August 11th, 2006 09:46 AM
I've enjoyed Packing.org and found a lot of useful info. Lately ...well you know. I'm so glad I've found this site and I also use handgunlaw.us, the NRA, or the actual state web sites for legal updates. I sure appreciate this site and the moderators here and I wish Mark well in his new life.
August 11th, 2006 10:24 AM
FWIW, I agree with most of the replies here, especially about the quality of this forum and that P.O seems to have gone a bit adrift compaired to how it's been run in the past. I have lurked at Packing off and on for quite a while, but I'm not a "regular" there and much prefer places like this one unless I'm looking for specific info.
My reason in posting about it is there was interest showed by others here about the fate of P.O and there was confusion as to whether P.O had been taken down since it was off line for a while. Now we know why and for those interested, the site is back up.
"... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane
August 11th, 2006 10:53 AM
My opinion of Packing.org
I have participated in Packing.org for several years, and have seen it go through various cycles. The chat section of the site was fairly rudimentary at first, and gradually evolved into a very active place, with plenty of postings and good information. And it always had human moderators, who had the power to delete out of bounds posts and maintain some order and civility. That is the way over 90% of the participants wanted it, and it worked well.
Then about a year ago Mark Solomon invented an "automatic" or "robotic" system to govern the chat section, and pretty well did away with human moderators. This system involved "self moderation" by giving individuals the right to vote on posts, using a 0 to 5 scoring system. All posters started life with a 3.0 average, and this would be adjusted up or down based on votes received from others, according to a mysterious weighting formula. If your average score got too low, your postings would be automatically deemed "inappropriate" and would disappear from normal view (unless the viewer manually asked to see the questionable posting).
Well, there were some loopholes in the system that the inevitable "rogue posters" figured out and began to exploit. These rogue posters discovered that they could dish out zeros to affect the score of those they didn't like, or wanted to harass. And the 90% of the members who were normal began to resent this "zero banditry" and react by quitting the site, or by getting into posting battles with their suspected adversaries on the board. I believe some people would set up multiple accounts under assumed names in order to have more zeros available to dish out. The system attracted anti-gun trolls, pimply adolescents, and armchair commandos, all of whom seemed to revel in anonymity and creating conflict and chaos. And the site steadily degenerated to its present state, while Mark Solomon, the site owner, neglected the site for other activities.
Now Solomon announces that he is going to attend law school full time and won't be able to put time into the site, and will appoint volunteer moderators to handle the state info pages. But the chat area will evidently remain as is. I am not optimistic about the future of Packing.org, and believe it will be supplanted by other sites, like this one, with human moderators and rules of engagement.
August 11th, 2006 12:58 PM
I hope it works out for PDO. I learned an awful lot over there when I found it a couple years ago. I actually like the style of the guntalk forum. Businesslike.
Their state pages are woefully out of date in some cases. I hope they end up with a good crew of moderators.
August 11th, 2006 01:26 PM
I try to visit PDO every day. What can I say. You always remember your first.
The best thing Mark could do for PDO is to allow a few of the administrators the ability to delete posts or even ban a user when they go off the deep end.
I personally don't mind the rating system. I just set my options to view offensive posts and forget about it.
What does bother me is when some people REALLY get out of line, there appears to be no one who can stop it.....except Mark and I guess he is too busy.
Oh well. I'll continue to view the site and hope for the best. But THIS forum is feeling more like home every day.
August 11th, 2006 04:00 PM
I just tried to visit PDO and it was off line (still). I have enjoyed PDO although I would not comment on the threads there because of ... personaql preferances. I hope that it comes back up soon but this site is so much friendlier and I enjoy that.
August 12th, 2006 02:01 PM
I'm not sure what will have changed..
Before: Mark never does anything to the site or responds to queries, and the state administrators do all the work.
After: Mark will never be around to do anything to the site or respond to queries, and the state administrators will do all the work.
I was a 5+ time daily PDO addict and really hope the chaos will die down, but the whole place now just feels like no one is behind the wheel. I appreciate the very long history of the site and of course no one wants to see that just vanish. But I don't understand why he won't just let it go and sell the site to someone who will do it justice again.
August 12th, 2006 04:59 PM
Well, I will, as always, wish Packing.org the best on making a comeback. I also wish handgunlaw.us the best on taking the lead. We all need them to use as reference to current laws and regulations in the various states. That is their focus. I have a preference, as most of you do, but it isn't relevant.
Our focus is discussing concealed carry topics, and while a member here can get much of the same information here as on PDO or handgunlaw, organizing and presenting that information as a reference is not our focus. We don't compete with either site, or really any other site on the Internet as far as I am concerned.
The "reputation system" that PDO has is also built into the vBulletin scripts and is one I considered early on and discarded as they seem to encourage chaos. For administrators, there are endless oppportunities for screwing up one's own forum with new "features" and I have been slightly burned a few times myself. I am quick to learn by my mistakes and I'm not afraid to admit I made a mistake and back them out. With the moderators we have at CombatCarry I can always run an idea by them and they will give me their thoughts on it. Forums need moderators. They need humans looking at every problem. If an administrator tries to handle it all by himself/herself, it's going to eventually fail on a larger forum.
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
August 13th, 2006 04:09 PM
I have to say that I came here from PdO just a few weeks ago because of the childish posts and sqabbling over the rating system. I just felt I had better things to do with my time. Needless to say I am very impressed with this site, and have made it my homepage.
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