Posting Property Doesn't Change Insurance Rates or Libility

This is a discussion on Posting Property Doesn't Change Insurance Rates or Libility within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have talked to an Insurance Agency that sells Commercial Property Insurance in Ohio and West Virginia. They represent over 20 different Insurance Companies. They ...

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Thread: Posting Property Doesn't Change Insurance Rates or Libility

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Gary Slider's Avatar
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    Posting Property Doesn't Change Insurance Rates or Libility

    I have talked to an Insurance Agency that sells Commercial Property Insurance in Ohio and West Virginia. They represent over 20 different Insurance Companies. They have never seen a policy or heard of any policy that required or gave reduced rates to any business that posted their property. They have never seen a policy that stated they had to post their property. I know this agent very well as they went through my class to obtain a Permit to Carry in West Virginia and the agent has been selling insurance for 20+ years.

    They did tell me that there would be a surcharge on a policy if the owner kept a weapon on the property. So if a business keeps a firearm or any weapon on their property they will pay a surcharge but there is no savings of any kind or limits to their liability for posting their property. The surcharge pertains to all weapons. They even told me about one establishment that kept a big sword on the property and had to pay the surcharge.

    So if a company tells you they have to post for insurance reasons they are just trying to pass the buck and say they have to. Ask for the name of their insurance company if they state that and I bet they will not tell you.
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    Gary Slider

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    Ex Member Array BioGLoCK23's Avatar
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    I think it's more of a civil liability issue. So, if some psycho shoots you on their property they can say "Oh, but we have a no firearms on the premises policy. That bad man violated it. We're not responsible for him breaking the rules."

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info, Gary... But aside from mom and pop stores, BioGlock is probably right... at a corporate level. The legal department is probably afraid of civil liability.
    Rats!
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    I suppose

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    Actually the new WI law says that if a business allows carry they cannot be sued in civil court if something happens on their property. If they do post then they are taking responsibility for their patrons safety and if they fail to protect you during your visit they can be held liable. I am assuming that is why I have yet to see a sign posted pre-enactment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    Actually the new WI law says that if a business allows carry they cannot be sued in civil court if something happens on their property. If they do post then they are taking responsibility for their patrons safety and if they fail to protect you during your visit they can be held liable.
    Outstanding!
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    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    Actually the new WI law says that if a business allows carry they cannot be sued in civil court if something happens on their property. If they do post then they are taking responsibility for their patrons safety and if they fail to protect you during your visit they can be held liable. I am assuming that is why I have yet to see a sign posted pre-enactment.
    It will be interesting to see what happens when the first case hits the courts. I'm betting that provision gets thrown out.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

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    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    Thank you Gary for the information. I used to be in insurance and never ever heard of places posting "no firearms" signs for purpose of obtaining insurance. Like some others I felt that reasoning was to justify their approach to firearms on their property so they just blame the insurance company. Who is really going to find out who their company is and what is in their specific policy? If companies post their business, then don't do business with them if possible.
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    Senior Member Array Gary Slider's Avatar
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    Businesses can say whatever they like. But by being posted it doesn't change a thing when it comes to liability. In fact WI is just one state that has a law that states if someone comes into your business and hurts someone you can't be sued. That should be the law of the land. Now if it is the owner or an employee of the owner then they are responsible.

    Posting Signs are just like signing a waiver to do something stating if you get hurt you won't sue. Those pieces of paper have no legal standing. You can't sign your rights away but everyone still has you sign them because if someone gets hurt they think they can't sue because they signed a waiver.

    So if you post a sign and someone comes in and starts shooting that sign means nothing in a court of law. It may mean something to a jury but only what they want to read into it.
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    Gary Slider

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slider View Post
    I have talked to an Insurance Agency that sells Commercial Property Insurance in Ohio and West Virginia. They represent over 20 different Insurance Companies. They have never seen a policy or heard of any policy that required or gave reduced rates to any business that posted their property. They have never seen a policy that stated they had to post their property. I know this agent very well as they went through my class to obtain a Permit to Carry in West Virginia and the agent has been selling insurance for 20+ years.

    They did tell me that there would be a surcharge on a policy if the owner kept a weapon on the property. So if a business keeps a firearm or any weapon on their property they will pay a surcharge but there is no savings of any kind or limits to their liability for posting their property. The surcharge pertains to all weapons. They even told me about one establishment that kept a big sword on the property and had to pay the surcharge.

    So if a company tells you they have to post for insurance reasons they are just trying to pass the buck and say they have to. Ask for the name of their insurance company if they state that and I bet they will not tell you.
    Gary, thanks for the post. I was an insurance agent for awhile in the early 90s. Please do not take this the wrong way, but I would want to talk to an underwriter to make sure what your friend is saying is factual.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Senior Member Array TonyDTrigger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    Actually the new WI law says that if a business allows carry they cannot be sued in civil court if something happens on their property. If they do post then they are taking responsibility for their patrons safety and if they fail to protect you during your visit they can be held liable. I am assuming that is why I have yet to see a sign posted pre-enactment.
    Nice! well done WI. We need this nationwide.

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    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    Actually the new WI law says that if a business allows carry they cannot be sued in civil court if something happens on their property. If they do post then they are taking responsibility for their patrons safety and if they fail to protect you during your visit they can be held liable. I am assuming that is why I have yet to see a sign posted pre-enactment.
    I took a quick look at the FAQ for the Wisconsin law and was unable to find where it said that the property owner was liable for your protection. I think EVERY business has to take reasonable precautions to ensure your safety, but the fact that they don't permit firearms doesn't make them more liable. I could be wrong as I didn't put this under a microscope but it just doesn't sound like something a state would put in the law........do you have a link to that section?
    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
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    Senior Member Array Gary Slider's Avatar
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    Harryball,

    If an underwriter required it or there were discounts for posting then the Agents would have heard about it. There are some things that must be done and certain things you can't do to get insurance. The Underwriters state this and the agents know what they are to make sure their clients know what those limitations are and adhere to the requirements.
    Stay Safe,
    Gary Slider

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