What's a "good" time to draw and fire 1 round?

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Thread: What's a "good" time to draw and fire 1 round?

  1. #31
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    Array atctimmy's Avatar
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    I prefer the Jedi mind trick.
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    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglebeak View Post
    So you've practiced and practiced until you're able to move/draw/fire and pop a toad between the eyes at 20 feet in 0.9 seconds - fantastic, you're halfway there. Now consider the very frequent scenario when you're walking along minding your own business while your ears and mind are being pummelled into a stupor by the wife/hustand/friend/kid's incessant rant about something insignifcant they feel should be of major importance to you - when suddenly a BG steps out from an alley or parked cars with the muzzle of his weapon aimed point-blank at you (or wife/husband/kid) making some kind of demand. He/she is already adrenalined/drugged up and most likely already has too much finger pressure on the trigger that could easily spell disaster even unintentionally. Obviously, if you or anyone with you should even bat an eye or pass a little wind, your 0.9 second move/draw/fire technique will be about 0.85 seconds too slow - OK, so now what??? Do you stand around waiting to be summarily executed? Do you take the chance of you or someone next to you taking a bullet while you see if you can draw faster than the BG can squeeze the trigger on a weapon that's already cocked and aimed? Or is there another possibility?
    Eaglebeak let me start by saying I have never do this against a real gun, but have faced someone, armed with a airsoft, who was told to shoot me at the first sign of movement of any kind. And I won! Moving off the X and shooting on the move seemed to work that time and has more than once. I was 61 years old at the time this was done. I'm 63 now can I still do it? I would give it my best go, even against a real gun. (that is sitting here in my chair)

    Guys if you have not done so get to a FOF class and test your training, so you know if it will work or not. If it doesn't then find what will.
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    If you do not have the initiative, it is prudent to attempt to gain an edge, whether through pleading, ruse, distraction, etc. I have done this with some of the best, playing both the good guy and bad, with and against the initiative with and without movement. Without an edge it is very difficult. I've also done it for real. If you can gain an edge, use it.
    Secret Spuk likes this.
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    If you do not have the initiative, it is prudent to attempt to gain an edge, whether through pleading, ruse, distraction, etc. I have done this with some of the best, playing both the good guy and bad, with and against the initiative with and without movement. Without an edge it is very difficult. I've also done it for real. If you can gain an edge, use it.
    I agree!
    "TOUJOURS PRET"

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Whats a good time to fire 1 round? If the BG drops like a sack of potatoes on the first shot.
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  7. #36
    Member Array redmc's Avatar
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    Post # 3 offers words of wisdom. Your first shot will be the best you will get.
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  8. #37
    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    It's something you can't quantify.

    Just work on getting better/faster.

    Be first.

    Jim
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  9. #38
    Member Array TDH1961's Avatar
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    Lateral movement and shoot until threat is no longer a threat. One shot or five or until your out of ammo.

  10. #39
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    At my age and condition, the one thing I try to do fast is cover the distance between me and the bathroom. Anything else can wait.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  11. #40
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    I have been chastised for this before in other threads, but hey, what the heck.

    Every person is different. Lessons are great, nothing wrong with lessons. Just remember, what works for an instructor does not necessarily work for you. 3 days of lessons and someone gets proficient at a particular shooting discipline. Problem is, time passes and those lessons are forgotten by "your natural abilities".

    I have seen people struggle at hitting targets. Rifle, Shotgun and handgun. They take lessons they do great. 3 weeks later they are back to missing targets, often more than before the lessons. They miss because their natural style starts to blend with the style that they learned from the instructor.

    Your natural instincts are the greatest teacher that you have. Every person has the natural ability to point at an object. Learn to make the gun point to what you are looking at. You will be surprised at how close to the "X" that you can naturally point the gun, once you have trained yourself to "See the target". Not just look at the target but "See the target".

    Most folks, after a little practice, can hit a 12" target easily at 20+ yards and never get the gun up to eye level. The more you practice, the more accurately you can point the gun. Learning how to point will not hurt "sight shooting" at all. If anything it helps.

    Try it. You may be surprised at how well "pointing" works, once you learn to "See the target".
    ccw9mm, Secret Spuk and Ghost1958 like this.
    A wise man once said: "Bugout bag?..What's that? Is that all the junk you sidewalk commandos plan on humping when the SHTF...I'll grab a Nylon 66, a box of 22s and a poncho liner and in less than a week I will have all of your stuff and everything else that I need for the duration."

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Hey Everyone...

    I've got to disagree with some posters. Firing one shot will not likely get you killed. Any and every self defence situation will be different. There is no one size fits all soloution. Sometimes one shot will end it, sometimes it will take a second or a third. My Mantra is "dont be in such a hurry to run out of ammo". Again a person must consider the unique situation before acting. Sometimes not firing a shot is the answer.

    I'm not a huge fan of fast draw. I believe that a fast draw situation is most probably a failure of situational awareness situation as well. Of course a situation could develop where a prson may have the option of drawing under the gun. Believe me... It does happen.

    Get off the X... IMO the best advice a person can share. It's harder to hit a moving target, harder to hit a target behind something big and hard, and really hard to hit a target you cant see. I want to be that moving target begind something so big and hard that I cant be seen.
    #2 Rule in a shootout... DONT GET SHOT!

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    I just watched an episode of some show on TV and from the holster, Dave Spaulding (whom I admire) put 2 rounds into a 3X5 index card in 2 seconds from what looked to be about 7 yards. I think that would be a good place to start.

    Dave With More About The 2 x 2 x 2 Drill | Handgun Combatives

    After shooting this drill for two decades, I can offer some suggestions for successful completion. One, speed is NOT the solution…control is. While the draw to the target must be reasonably fast, it is about delivering the gun directly to the target and having it stop without muzzle bounce over the card.
    Dave mentioned that the SF guys he learned it from would do it cold, i.e., it was the first drill they would do when they got to the range without warming up, just like a gunfight happens.

    Jim
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  14. #43
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Some things I've noticed in FoF training is that 1. Your arm is about 2.5 feet long. 2. It takes most people a second or two to react to something. 3. You can close a gap of almost 6 feet faster than a person can decide to pull a trigger.

    So if somebody 6 feet away has a gun pointed at you, you can blade your body out of the sight picture, swing up your arm and sweep the gun away before the gunman can decide to fire. If you have practiced this, you'll know it's true. Doesn't mean you could do it every time, might just get your head blown off.

    But, it does mean that you have options besides the quickdraw. In IDPA training, I've found that you can usually get your weapon cleared from concealment and on target and snap at least one shot off in less than 2 seconds. Trying to get faster is probably focusing on the wrong thing.

    In looking at all the comments so far, especially the fast is smooth and smooth is fast remarks, people are aligning with Jeff Cooper's advice that being deliberate and committed is what's going to win the day - if you have a chance to prevail.

    Sure, practice all you like and train and develop speed, but shaving a tenth of a second off your draw time is probably not the winning strategy. Could be - life is weird.

    My take is that developing your SA and good habits is more useful. If you think you're going to need your gun, you'll want to be sweeping your clothing aside, getting a grip on it, maybe even draw it before you're going to need it. Otherwise, it's likely going to be something like shoving the guy away, dumping him, before you go for it. Worst case: Wrestling around and fighting from the ground. A recent high-profile case makes that pretty clear.

    Train with your weapon like you train with all your weapons. You don't know what you're going to need in the gravest extreme, so don't focus overmuch on one thing over another. Develop your skills and spend the most time on the things that are most likely to happen.
    Bill MO likes this.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    ...
    I'm not a huge fan of fast draw. I believe that a fast draw situation is most probably a failure of situational awareness situation as well. Of course a situation could develop where a prson may have the option of drawing under the gun. Believe me... It does happen.

    Get off the X... IMO the best advice a person can share. It's harder to hit a moving target, harder to hit a target behind something big and hard, and really hard to hit a target you cant see. I want to be that moving target begind something so big and hard that I cant be seen.
    #2 Rule in a shootout... DONT GET SHOT!
    I agree with this. Fast draw is likely never to be a factor. If you're going into a dicey situation the solution is to pocket your firearm in a jacket pocket so you have the (hidden) drop on any BG.

    The best rule to follow in an ambush is not to lose (similar to don't get shot). The way you avoid both is to seek time, distance and cover. Don't be in a big hurry to shoot someone. Also, getting 'off the X' is not enough - we've seen videos that show someone running away easily getting hit. You must seek cover.

    Good thread though.
    shockwave and Secret Spuk like this.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array rugergunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natimage View Post
    I've been using a draw timer found at: Dry Fire Drills and my airsoft gun to practice clearing clothing, draw, acquire and shoot 1 round. I've just been using a box as a target and it's about 5 yards away (but that's all beside the point)

    What is a good time to draw and fire one shot? I want to have a goal and of course there are tons of variables and all that based on distance, target size, all that. I'm just looking for a general rule. I'm currently at about 1.5 seconds but I feel like that's an eternity when I just wait for 1.5 seconds. I would be very dead if that box was actually a bad guy running at me with a knife, not to mention I'm expecting the beep. I most likely won't be expecting an act of random violence although my spidey senses will hopefully start to tingle a bit prior to having to engage.
    Remember, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. One of the few things I saw in a movie that made sense. Also, Bruce Lee said of advanced skills, that they are no more than the basics mastered. Practice with a purpose and start out slow. Speed will come with mastering the basics. JMHO.
    I would rather die on my feet, than to live on my knees.

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