October 24th, 2011 07:57 PM
What's a "good" time to draw and fire 1 round?
I've been using a draw timer found at: Dry Fire Drills and my airsoft gun to practice clearing clothing, draw, acquire and shoot 1 round. I've just been using a box as a target and it's about 5 yards away (but that's all beside the point)
What is a good time to draw and fire one shot? I want to have a goal and of course there are tons of variables and all that based on distance, target size, all that. I'm just looking for a general rule. I'm currently at about 1.5 seconds but I feel like that's an eternity when I just wait for 1.5 seconds. I would be very dead if that box was actually a bad guy running at me with a knife, not to mention I'm expecting the beep. I most likely won't be expecting an act of random violence although my spidey senses will hopefully start to tingle a bit prior to having to engage.
In God I trust, it's the rest of you I'm concerned about
Certified Smith & Wesson M&P pistol and MP15 rifle armorer
October 24th, 2011 08:03 PM
Time is important, but so is movement. Movement off the x cancels alot of flubbed time. Good hits while moving takes care of the rest.
Do not make the potentially dangerous error of firing one shot.
Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.
October 24th, 2011 08:14 PM
Just remember, slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
Work on getting all the basics of the movement down, and doing it smoothly. If you do that, speed with just come as part of the practice.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
October 24th, 2011 08:17 PM
Inside five yards, I consider anything under a second with a good hit, from concealment, moving or not as acceptable. Then again, I've gotten old and slow.
Initially it may be better to initiate movement then start your draw until it becomes habit. Many who don't do that, draw, but forget to move.
"I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".
October 24th, 2011 08:22 PM
I'm an old guy...I'm not fast, but my Point Shooting instructor did demonstrate how to draw from cover and put two 9mm rounds in a target in .4 sec...I was impressed.
Now if you would like to see REAL fast...how about 6 shots from a revolver, a reload with 6 more shots...all under 3 sec...all shots in the target?
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member[/B]
October 24th, 2011 10:09 PM
I'm a relative newbie (I started shooting late November of last year), and had, until this summer, focused exclusively on the "slow is smooth" part of the equation, when it came to draws.
My firm belief is that the basics must be well-ingrained, and must be second-nature before one should progress.
This September, I took my first "intermediate" level course, and the instructor pressed us to get down below 1.5 seconds, drawing from concealment (most of us were wearing what we would usually wear, closed-front un-tucked T-shirts or button-ups, with IWB holsters and shooting Compact-sized autopistols; it would not have done any of us any good to have worn an open-front "tactical vest" with an OWB rig - we may have been considerably faster, but it would not have made the training realistic), hitting center-mass on a Magpul BSA target (which has an 8" center-mass ring, IIRC), at 3 yards, while "exploding off the X."
Ancillary to my fundamental belief in the basics above, thus, is a healthy respect for the *need* to drill towards a set goal - i.e. a balance of speed/accuracy, while incorporating movement. Without that pressure of the clock, it's hard to get faster simply by focusing on the mechanics of the draw - at some point, you will have to press towards the clock (preferably, you'll be at a point where your fundamentals are well grounded, and that you know how to do it as safely as possible).
To me, that first-shot is all-important: it -MUST NOT- miss, and moreover, it should be as close to that magical bulls-eye you've painted in your mind's eye as you can get it to be. Nevertheless, that first shot should not necessarily be your only shot - train to double-tap or to give controlled-pairs, and increase the round-count from there, shooting until the target is "down" in your imagination (or if you have a reactive target), while maintaining the same goal.
Dry fire practice is one thing, and it's a good thing (as long as you are careful not to induce training scars) - I do it, too. But remember that if you're not working with an actual shot-timer, live-fire, you may not actually be registering the time-to-hit that you've set for your goal (i.e. that end "beep" takes time, too, so you're thinking your shot may have come at 1.5, but it's actually coming in at, say, 1.6 or 1.75).
I'm working to get my first-round-hit time down below one second, at 3 yards, while I'm moving, and drawing from my usual clothing and setup.
October 25th, 2011 06:37 AM
While speed is nice, accuracy with your first shot is more important. Many "fast" men died in gunfights because their first shot missed.
Remember, a lot of speed achieved while training will be negated by the element of surprise as well as the stress of the situation.
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NRA Life Member
October 25th, 2011 07:05 AM
Just like Glockman said: GET OFF THE X!
Before I continue, I need to add that only firing one shot is a good way to get yourself killed, especially if you miss, and especially because it's INCREDIBLY difficult to know if you've hit someone in real life, especially if they are wearing dark clothing, are high/drunk, etc.
At SI, we are trained to get off the "X" as fast AND controlled as possible, while simultaneously drawing and putting 3 to 4 shots in the BG. There are only a few even more unlikely scenarios in which I wouldn't be firing 3 to 4 shots.
My general rule is to fire a rapid three to four then quickly assess. If the target is still a threat, i.e., he is still pointing his weapon at you, I shoot him a couple more times. Like it says in my signature, "Shoot 'em to the ground!" This basically means that you shoot until the threat is stopped.
Honestly, the whole "fast draw" thing is a farce. In all likelihood, at least as a civilian, a BG isn't going to be running at you from 21 feet away; he's going to be right on top of you and likely have the element of surprise. If you try to stand still and draw, you may have a very bad day. Then again as a male it's also highly unlikely that you'll be attacked by only one person. This makes getting off the x all the more important.
The only time I'd ever stand still and "fast draw" is if I had significant cover in my immediate vicinity.
P.S. Just realized that I totally misconstrued the title for something else, but w/e!
Move. Shoot. Survive.
― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine
“The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.”
― Thomas Paine
October 25th, 2011 09:08 AM
I don't think of the two as separate skills - I think it's all intertwined.
Originally Posted by AZ Hawk
It's all good and well, and absolutely necessary, in my view, that one immediately reacts and gets off the X or away from the problem (i.e. if the BG is already on top of you), but if you cannot present your weapon (your gun, your knife, or even your fists) fast enough and get it to-bear on the BG, then it's still a losing proposition.
October 25th, 2011 10:25 AM
There are some people that I respect on here quoting some times that aren't realistic. A "good" stationary draw and a shot from a competition style holster is going to be around .7 to .8 seconds. And that is when you are ready, have no cover garment and when you are standing still. Yes there are exceptions to this and there are some freaky fast people out there. This post is for mortals only, superhumans can ignore these times.
To draw from concealment when you are surprised and moving will not even be close to that time. In practice if you can draw and shoot from concealment while moving in under 2 seconds you are a superstar. 2.5 to 3 is more realistic. Real world times are going to be 3 to 4 seconds (plus) when the feces hits the oscillating device.
If you really want to practice your draw technique I suggest a shot timer and plenty of work at the range. I practice often this way and it really helps. It is also a very perishable skill. It needs to be practiced often to stay proficient.
I wrote all of this to say that in the real world getting off the X is going to be more important than a quick draw. Also remember that in most cases the OODA loop is around 2 to 3 seconds. So even a 4 second draw/double tap will (hopefully) have you inside of the BGs ability to see, understand and react to your moving and to your draw.
In many cases getting off of the X is all you'll need. Explode off of the X and keep on running. Thousands of people have used their feet and feet only to escape from trouble.
Originally Posted by TSiWRX
Last edited by atctimmy; October 25th, 2011 at 12:54 PM.
Reason: lion attack
It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.
October 25th, 2011 11:12 AM
I agree with everyone who said to get off the "X" and to not fire just one shot! Our local police have to be able to draw and fire two well aimed shots in 1.5 seconds or under for their qualification. That is from a duty holster without a cover garment, however.
Live to ride, ride to live. Harley Road King
And keep a .45 handy
Kimber Custom TLE II
October 25th, 2011 11:46 AM
October 25th, 2011 12:01 PM
As I have found out, in a scary situation the A rush will make you do things faster. I was surprised at how quick I drew from cover (untucked shirt and jacket). Moving while drawing is very important as others have said. Practice double taps or multiple rounds.
October 25th, 2011 01:24 PM
To answer the question directly, the one second mark is the standard "good time". Most people cannot not get a second or under, but can get damn close. I do right around a second from a triple retention duty holster and just under a second from a concealment holster.
October 25th, 2011 02:21 PM
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