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What to do in those gun-free zones?

6K views 46 replies 30 participants last post by  10thmtn 
#1 ·
I had a parent-teacher conference yesterday. I actually nearly forgot about the stupid gun-free zone and started to get out of my car while armed, then had to get back in and disarm.

Am I the only one in the world who translates that sign on the front door of the school as "victim zone" instead of "gun free zone?" I couldn't help as I walked down the halls of the school towards my daughters classroom but to think about Columbine or Virginia tech and what the heck I'd do if a madman came in and started killing people. In fact, it makes me nervous leaving my daughter there every day where there is nobody who can protect her. Fortunately it is an elementary school and I don't think it is as likely to be targeted as a high-school, college, or even a middle-school.

But one of the things I started wondering is whether or not I could carry pepper spray into the school. I've trying googling for the answer but so far have not come up with any conclusive answer. While I believe pepper spray would be almost useless against a columbine style of attack, it would at least work for a less serious type of attack. I also wondered about Tasers. Are those technically considered a gun? I don't even own one, but might be tempted to buy one if I thought it would be legal to take into gun-free zones.
 
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#4 ·
Take it from someone who is forced to go without a firearm for almost half of every day (work). YOU are the weapon, the firearm is just a tool. As WHEC724 said, be opportunistic. Heck, even a rolled up magazine makes a decent contact weapon. A belt with a large metal buckle can extend your reach. Lots of different things are handy to all of us everyday. You just have to be creative and think about it in advance.

As far as spray on school grounds, you may need to get a local clarification. Just don't ask the school! You know what they will say.
 
#5 ·
It depends on what the gun free zone is. If its a government building or other location that is mandated by the state, I usually won't carry there despite my better judgement because I don't want to lose my permit. If its anywhere else, I ignore the sign. Gun free zones are dreamed up by retards.
 
#6 ·
The way I look at it, the criminal that is intent on doing evil things is going to ignore the sign and gives a “rats axx” what the sign says. I know I am not going to shoot anyone and carry strictly for self defense. I would carry it anyways; I would rather have it with me then wish I had it if the need arose. Many years I ago before the day of metal detectors in the courthouses, I was handling a hearing and had an expect witness to testify about property values. On the way into the courtroom he leans over and said he forgot he had a gun in his boot. I asked are you going to shoot the judge, he said no, I said don’t worry about it. Times were simpler back then.
 
#10 ·
You know, that raises an interesting question. Lets say you were a teacher, lunchroom worker, janitor, etc.. And you worked at Columbine and had a gun (illegally) with you on the day the crazy kids came in killing people. When I say illegally, I refer only to the fact that it is a federal gun-free-zone, not because you were a felon or something like that. Now lets say the crazy kids come in and start killing people and half-way through you pull out your gun and put an end to the madness. OK, so it would be hard for anyone to debate that you saved countless lives. Will you still be prosecuted for having a gun in a federal-gun-free zone?
 
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#7 ·
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't it illegal to leave the gun unattended in a car on public school grounds in Texas?
 
#8 ·
Just yesterday (Oct 24th 2011) they had a school shooting here in NC. All the laws, all the restrictions, metal detectors, etc, did nothing to prevent it. Their only response, go on "lock down". Lock yourself in a room and start chanting: "please don't see me". Prohibitions aren't force fields, they don't stop anybody. I know, I am preaching to the choir. In 40 years time, I have never had an assault charge or committed any other form of violent crime. I am certainly not going to start now, just because I choose to carry a gun.

Edit: here in NC it is even illegal to leave it in your car, parked on school property.
 
#9 ·
Check with your local gun rights organizations. In some states, those signs do not apply to concealed license holders. In those states, it is known as firearm preemption law.

In Oregon law, where I live, license holders may carry in public buildings, schools, etc., but employees (teachers) may be prevented from carrying even with a permit. Not prevented by law, but by school employee policy.
 
#14 ·
I had a parent-teacher conference yesterday. I actually nearly forgot about the stupid gun-free zone and started to get out of my car while armed, then had to get back in and disarm. Am I the only one in the world who translates that sign on the front door of the school as "victim zone" instead of "gun free zone?" I couldn't help as I walked down the halls of the school towards my daughters classroom but to think about Columbine or Virginia tech and what the heck I'd do if a madman came in and started killing people. In fact, it makes me nervous leaving my daughter there every day where there is nobody who can protect her. Fortunately it is an elementary school and I don't think it is as likely to be targeted as a high-school, college, or even a middle-school. But one of the things I started wondering is whether or not I could carry pepper spray into the school. I've trying googling for the answer but so far have not come up with any conclusive answer. While I believe pepper spray would be almost useless against a columbine style of attack, it would at least work for a less serious type of attack. I also wondered about Tasers. Are those technically considered a gun? I don't even own one, but might be tempted to buy one if I thought it would be legal to take into gun-free zones.
"Technically" the Federal GFZ is 1000 feet from the school/institution's property line. Lets hope this is changed before it is enforced.
 
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#16 ·
Weird, it is weird that you would open this to public discussion.
 
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#20 ·
But, Texas also says Places off limits even with a permit include On the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an
activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger
transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational
institution is public or private
also Texas states. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a
concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses
a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the
employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking
garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.
Sec.A52.062.AAEXCEPTIONS.
(a) Section 52.061 does not:
(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a
firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition
on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by
state or federal law; or
(2) apply to:
(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an
employee in the course and scope of the employee ’s employment, unless the
employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the official
discharge of the employee ’s duties;
(B) a school district;
 
#21 ·
IF you were going to be armed anyway, you'd have to go into deep concealment mode with a smaller gun - Smart Carry, underwear shirts, kangaroo carry, etc. with Jframes, PM9s, KT P9, etc. I'd forgo quick draw for super concealment and situational awareness.
 
#27 ·
I am not going to advocate breaking the law knowingly.

That said, many of my clients and casual friends would not appreciate knowing that I am armed. So, I make sure they do not know - by carrying "covertly." The Smartcarry works well, but since figuring out how to do dual pocket carry, I find myself carrying that way. I could probably carry two handguns anywhere that didn't have a metal detector, without frightening anyone.

And as others have mentioned - weapons are everywhere. Teeth, fists, feet, belts, metal pens, small knives, chairs, rolled papers, any object with some weight to it - you get the idea. Improvise - adapt - overcome.
 
#24 ·
There are plenty of alternative defensive tools that are legal to carry everywhere. There are also plenty of good ways to secure doors in commercial occupancies if you're forced to hole up somewhere. If the more useful alternatives, like OC or Tasers, are legal in your state, that depends on that states laws.
 
#25 ·
Some day somebody will sue because they were harmed because they followed the stupid signs. Example a legal carrying person disarmed to follow the rules and then somebody who ignores the sign comes in and does harm with a gun. Am I the only one who asks "if you prevent me from protecting myself then who will?" Looks like to me a reasonable jury would conclude, that in todays world, there is a reasonable chance of a person neeeding personal protection in a gun free zone. I see it everywhere it makes me crazy!!!!!!!!!!
 
#26 ·
Sounds nice in theory, but such a lawsuit would go nowhere.

No business is required to protect you from the actions of a third party while you are on their premises.
 
#31 ·
If you're not sure on what is acceptable to carry into a school, play it safe and call the legal department for the State Trooper's office in your state. I called mine the other week but they were already out. I got hold of the PR line and they advised me to call legal and said they would answer my questions. I'm going to call back again soon but first I think I'm going to make a list of questions. I've been reading law statutes but still have questions accordingly. At the same time, however, I tried calling my local police station before I called State Police and they told me that they won't give out legal advice. I'm still a little confused on that one. If they don't know the law well enough to tell you what it is, then how do they know it well enough to make an arrest?
 
#34 ·
Here : it's legal to conceal carry if licensed, in / at schools if they are not posted. Posting, applies ONLY to the building itself. Out of about 15 school buildings around me, (yep, there's a lot), I know of only one that's posted.

Per Fedl Law ; If you are licensed by the State, that includes a background check, etc... and the State allows it, then it's legal to carry.
 
#39 ·
In a classroom there are dozen of weapons.

Fire extinguisher (Spray into face blind attacker) or beat them with it.
Flagpole impact weapon.
Chairs to keep distance.
Scissors.
Pencils
Desks to shore up the door.

Put me in a Science class. Watch out. Heck, I may go on the attack. :wink:
 
#40 ·
In a classroom there are dozen of weapons.


Put me in a Science class. Watch out. Heck, I may go on the attack. :wink:
Stop it, you mean counter-attack right?
 
#43 ·
While I agree that most anything can be used as a weapon the issue is defending ones self from a BG with a gun. I guess if it's do or die I'll take on a shooter with a rolled up magazine but only a gun is equal against a gun.
 
#47 ·
Suggestion - if your local PD has an Auxiliary, go sign up and volunteer. If you ever need to defend yourself or others while off duty, it never hurts to have an "official good guy badge" in your wallet. Sure, it will cost you some free time, but you will be serving your community, getting to know the local LEOs and Police Chief, and maybe even some of the local political leaders. It can be good to have friends in high places.
 
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