Learned something interesting yesterday

Learned something interesting yesterday

This is a discussion on Learned something interesting yesterday within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well I had a 45 minute conversation with the guy in charge of all things CC in WI regarding the new law. I am a ...

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Thread: Learned something interesting yesterday

  1. #1
    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    Learned something interesting yesterday

    Well I had a 45 minute conversation with the guy in charge of all things CC in WI regarding the new law. I am a certified NRA instructor for basic pistol, defense in the home, out of the home, and a couple others. Anyway I called to speak to them about their new "certificate style" and the information that is required to be listed on it. Everything was pretty much good until I said "when I apply for my permit I assume that my NRA instructors certification card or certificates will be sufficient proof of training." His response was "NO, unless you have a certificate with the approved information in the approved format we will reject your request." So let me get this straight, I can teach other people and you will accept me as a certified teacher but I cannot get my permit unless I take a class taught by another instructor. Correct sir. OK so what happens if I write up my own certificate and sign it myself, after all I have listened to myself teach the class about 20 times now and I am sure I paid close attention to what I said and can pass the test that give. He says "well that is an interesting legal argument, can you be both instructor and student...I don't think that will work but I also don't know if we would catch that." The discussion continued on many different levels but in the end I need to submit my paperwork with a copy of my hunters safety certificate from 30+ years ago and that will be acceptable over my trainers certificates.

    Oh and he also confirmed that the current rules are temporary "emergency" rules that will only be in effect for about 150 days unless the legislature votes for an extension. At that time the legislature needs to pass new permanent rules that are signed by the Governor. He stated that they are not getting much response from other states on reciprocity because the other states don't know what we will require. So for now basically we are accepting other States permits but only those who honor all permits are readily accepting ours.


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    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    Typical bureaucrat! Although you find this attitude all over, not just in government.

    When I went up to Alaska I worked for a small flight school in Anchorage. The owner of the place required that all the students for an instrument rating go on a field trip to the air traffic control center. I soon got a new student who just happened to be a controller at Anchorage center. You guessed it, the flight school owner insisted that the controller visit ANC center so he could see what it was that he did for a living. After all, the course required it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    So for now basically we are accepting other States permits.
    Does this mean WI is accepting all other state permits? That differs from what Gary put up last week. Neither Ohio nor Florida were on the list Gary published. Only 24 states and 2 territories were on that list which is here = http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf
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    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    Well I had a 45 minute conversation with the guy in charge of all things CC in WI regarding the new law. I am a certified NRA instructor for basic pistol, defense in the home, out of the home, and a couple others. Anyway I called to speak to them about their new "certificate style" and the information that is required to be listed on it. Everything was pretty much good until I said "when I apply for my permit I assume that my NRA instructors certification card or certificates will be sufficient proof of training." His response was "NO, unless you have a certificate with the approved information in the approved format we will reject your request." So let me get this straight, I can teach other people and you will accept me as a certified teacher but I cannot get my permit unless I take a class taught by another instructor. Correct sir. OK so what happens if I write up my own certificate and sign it myself, after all I have listened to myself teach the class about 20 times now and I am sure I paid close attention to what I said and can pass the test that give. He says "well that is an interesting legal argument, can you be both instructor and student...I don't think that will work but I also don't know if we would catch that." The discussion continued on many different levels but in the end I need to submit my paperwork with a copy of my hunters safety certificate from 30+ years ago and that will be acceptable over my trainers certificates. Oh and he also confirmed that the current rules are temporary "emergency" rules that will only be in effect for about 150 days unless the legislature votes for an extension. At that time the legislature needs to pass new permanent rules that are singed by the Governor. He stated that they are not getting much response from other states on reciprocity because the other states don't know what we will require. So for now basically we are accepting other States permits but only those who honor all permits are readily accepting ours.
    I sure hope that there is more than one person involved in these rules, if not some day everyone in WI will be sorry when the "wrong" person gets the power. Mean time, I'm sure that you know another instructor with whom you can reciprocate.
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    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    Yes we are going to have a "class" at the bar this week and sign each others certificates.

    Does this mean WI is accepting all other state permits? That differs from what Gary put up last week. Neither Ohio nor Florida were on the list Gary published. Only 24 states and 2 territories were on that list which is here = http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf

    Sorry for the confusion, what I was trying to say is that most other States will not consider reciprocity until the rules are final so I will not be recognized in any other States than those that recognize all. WI is only recognizing the ones listed so far but they are waiting on info from many more so the list will continue to grow as they get their responses.

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    Member Array trip20's Avatar
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    Where did you get this information? J.B. Van Hollen?

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    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    No J.B. wasn't available so I got the guy that is in charge of the committee/group in DOJ that did the "interpreting" of the rules that the legislature "implied" in the law they passed. Honestly I am pretty sure this guy knew more about what is going on than J.B. would.

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    Member Array trip20's Avatar
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    Maybe.
    But he's not "in charge". JB is.
    Not to mention the committee's interpretation is for *****.
    The bill's authors, Governor Walker, the NRA, countless individuals and other legislators reached out to the DOJ amidst speculation that the committee's interpretation was not in line with legislative intent. The DOJ ignored this communication as evident by their ridiculous training requirements and your conversation with the mystery individual.

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    Wait, so Missouri honors Wisconsin's permit, but Wisconsin does not honor Missouri? What the hell!!!
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