Crockett Keller May Loose CHL Instructor Lic. for Radio Ad

This is a discussion on Crockett Keller May Loose CHL Instructor Lic. for Radio Ad within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I will start out by saying that I do not agree with what he said in any way shape or form...but he is a business ...

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Thread: Crockett Keller May Loose CHL Instructor Lic. for Radio Ad

  1. #16
    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    I will start out by saying that I do not agree with what he said in any way shape or form...but he is a business owner and has the freedom to say what he wants and to refuse service to any customer he chooses for what ever reason he wants. First of all freedom of religion means the government cannot discriminate or censure a religion not an individual. As individuals we have the right to our opinion and to express that opinion. As a business owner he has the right to refuse service to anyone, there is nothing in any law that says that a private individual in a private business MUST provide their service or product to all people. This is not discrimination by the government that limits the ability of people to get needed service, the people that he will not service just need to take their money down the street to the next person. If the DMV made those statements then it is discrimination, if he chooses this path it is just bad business. If he receives government money to subsidize his course as the only provider then he should be sanctioned but if not, it is a semi-free country. Remember the Constitution protects all of us, even the idiots and bigots and just plain hateful people. If he looses the right to say what he wants and run his business as he sees fit where is the line drawn and who draws it? Is Curves for Women Gyms discriminating when they say I cannot go in there and work out because I am a man? Should they be forced to do something they don't want to with the consequence being the government shutting them down and taking their livelihood? Or should the market dictate the outcome? I can work out at the next place down the street, and if my wife wants to work out with me she can switch and vote with her pocketbook. The Constitution provides freedom of speech not freedom from being offended by others. Again I don't agree with this monkey in a hat and I would not run my business that way but like it or not he needs to be able to do it or we all loose a little bit more freedom.

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  3. #17
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    A lot of you did not pay attention in civics 101. I weep for the public school system. You cannot deny service based upon race, ethnicity or religion. What part about that don't you get.
    EdC likes this.

  4. #18
    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    If you are going to provide a service to the public, do so with out bigotry, ignorance, and hate or don't do it at all. I truly hope loads of muslims sign up for his class, and he refuses them, then he gets litigated right out of existence.
    You cannot sue an individual for his beliefs whether he runs a business or not. And you cannot compare a private individual to an entity such as the power company since the power company is a monopoly that is allowed to exist as long as they abide by certain rules. Non-discrimination is one of them. If you could choose which company you get your power from among 20 choices in your town then yes they could set any criteria they want because you have a choice.
    ErnieNWillis likes this.

  5. #19
    Ex Member Array CUMMINS's Avatar
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    If its his company he has the right to discriminate. Hes only turning away money for him. This is a free country he can serve who he wants. The gov won't help white people, Muslims kill Christians, but for some reason they don't get in trouble for discrimination. But the wrath will coke down when a white man speaks up

  6. #20
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    You cannot sue an individual for his beliefs whether he runs a business or not. And you cannot compare a private individual to an entity such as the power company since the power company is a monopoly that is allowed to exist as long as they abide by certain rules. Non-discrimination is one of them. If you could choose which company you get your power from among 20 choices in your town then yes they could set any criteria they want because you have a choice.
    I bet you are wrong...

    The Department of Public Safety said in a statement that certified instructors of handgun training are required to comply with all applicable state and federal laws, and added: “Conduct by an instructor that denied service to individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity or religion would place that instructor’s certification by the Department at risk of suspension or revocation.” The department has said it has begun an investigation.
    he is going to lose his cert and then he can be free doing something else for a living

  7. #21
    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    If you don't how he runs his business organize a boycott, line up protesters in from of his operation, but don't ask the government to step in because once they step up they never step back.
    ErnieNWillis likes this.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array Maverickx50's Avatar
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    common sense dictates that you just don't always say what your thinking or you believe. Discretion is the better part of valor.

    as an example our neighbor rents out several old farm houses. She refused to rent one to a young single mother due to the long driveway and the snow removal issues. I understand and empathize with her concerns. Problem is she admitted to it in public when asked and it cost her her rental license and $15,000 in fines. You can be right yet break the law at the same time. Laws are not based on using common sense they are created to protect the minorities in our system of government.
    rammerjammer likes this.
    I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.

  9. #23
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    If you don't how he runs his business organize a boycott, line up protesters in from of his operation, but don't ask the government to step in because once they step up they never step back.
    So I should just go smoke pot and blow up a mosque because even though there is federal laws prohibiting this.... I am American and I have the right to do so?

    Hell can I open a business to sell cigarettes and alchohol to those under 18? I mean it is America and I am business owner who has the right to sell to who I want.... wait there is that law thing....

    How about selling firearms to felons or dope smokers? It is my business I can do what I want. I don't have to follow silly laws and rules. Right? Do you agree?

    Screw these silly laws, I am a business owner in America!! I can do what I want and provide my service to whom I want.... laws schmaws!!

  10. #24
    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    Obviously this has you quite worked up. Have you never seen signs that say "we reserve the right to refuse service"? So by your definition I as a business owner must sell my product or service to anyone that wants it correct? Does that apply to banks? They have chosen to discriminate against poor people by not giving them loans. The gas station on the corner will not take my check so if I don't have a credit card and the bank is closed to get cash they are discriminating against me...right?

    Honestly I don't see what the problem is. If you don't like his decision take your business to someone else. I do it all the time.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    My beef with Crockett Keller is about the ignorant, idiotic way he presented himself in his ad. If he wants to exclude certain people or certain groups of people from his classes he could probably accomplish that without running his mouth publicly with that idiotic little grandstand act he used that he must have calculated would endear him to certain people. Whether or not he can continue to be certified, he's a fool with too much mouth and he will be seen as an embarrassment to most gun owners and 2A supporters.

  12. #26
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    If your going to act like a jackass, don't expected to be treated differently.
    Eaglebeak and rably like this.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    I don't mind consequences, but should it be the Gov. that levies them? Or should we let the market take care of it, or not. Lot's of complaining about PC on here. This would just be Gov. endorsement of it if he looses his certification, much less his FFL. Free speech or freedom to run your own business anyone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    I will start out by saying that I do not agree with what he said in any way shape or form...but he is a business owner and has the freedom to say what he wants and to refuse service to any customer he chooses for what ever reason he wants. First of all freedom of religion means the government cannot discriminate or censure a religion not an individual. As individuals we have the right to our opinion and to express that opinion. As a business owner he has the right to refuse service to anyone, there is nothing in any law that says that a private individual in a private business MUST provide their service or product to all people. This is not discrimination by the government that limits the ability of people to get needed service, the people that he will not service just need to take their money down the street to the next person. If the DMV made those statements then it is discrimination, if he chooses this path it is just bad business. If he receives government money to subsidize his course as the only provider then he should be sanctioned but if not, it is a semi-free country. Remember the Constitution protects all of us, even the idiots and bigots and just plain hateful people. If he looses the right to say what he wants and run his business as he sees fit where is the line drawn and who draws it? Is Curves for Women Gyms discriminating when they say I cannot go in there and work out because I am a man? Should they be forced to do something they don't want to with the consequence being the government shutting them down and taking their livelihood? Or should the market dictate the outcome? I can work out at the next place down the street, and if my wife wants to work out with me she can switch and vote with her pocketbook. The Constitution provides freedom of speech not freedom from being offended by others. Again I don't agree with this monkey in a hat and I would not run my business that way but like it or not he needs to be able to do it or we all loose a little bit more freedom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    You cannot sue an individual for his beliefs whether he runs a business or not. And you cannot compare a private individual to an entity such as the power company since the power company is a monopoly that is allowed to exist as long as they abide by certain rules. Non-discrimination is one of them. If you could choose which company you get your power from among 20 choices in your town then yes they could set any criteria they want because you have a choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    If you don't how he runs his business organize a boycott, line up protesters in from of his operation, but don't ask the government to step in because once they step up they never step back.
    Plus 1000+

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    The guy is cutting his nose to spite his face. He should let all these slimes into his classes and proceed to use his 1A and absolutely rail against them all in the most obnoxious and disgusting way he can. He should encourage the rest of the class to join him in his rants and demeaning commentary. If the slimes want to stay they have to put up with this and should easily be shouted down by the rest of the class who must maintain their composure and not get physical. He meets the law, gets their money, gets a chance to tell them what he thinks of them yada yada yada. Actually sounds like the kind of class I would love to attend.
    Maverickx50 likes this.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array DaRedneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    A lot of you did not pay attention in civics 101. I weep for the public school system. You cannot deny service based upon race, ethnicity or religion. What part about that don't you get.
    Ever heard of affirmative action?
    "He who does not punish evil commands it to be done." - Leonardo da Vinci

  16. #30
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubledown View Post
    Obviously this has you quite worked up. Have you never seen signs that say "we reserve the right to refuse service"? So by your definition I as a business owner must sell my product or service to anyone that wants it correct? Does that apply to banks? They have chosen to discriminate against poor people by not giving them loans. The gas station on the corner will not take my check so if I don't have a credit card and the bank is closed to get cash they are discriminating against me...right?

    Honestly I don't see what the problem is. If you don't like his decision take your business to someone else. I do it all the time.
    Actually there are laws in this country against certain kinds of discrimination. I suggest you familiarize yourself with them.

    I get worked up because bigoted racist donkey holes like this really give the rest of the conservative firearm owning Americans a bad bad name. Just like that worthless waste of oxygen JT Ready who is protesting at OWS in phoenix carrying AR's.

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