Crockett Keller May Loose CHL Instructor Lic. for Radio Ad

This is a discussion on Crockett Keller May Loose CHL Instructor Lic. for Radio Ad within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Until he actually refuses service to a protected class of people he hasn't violated the law....

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Thread: Crockett Keller May Loose CHL Instructor Lic. for Radio Ad

  1. #76
    Member Array pwrincross's Avatar
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    Until he actually refuses service to a protected class of people he hasn't violated the law.
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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwrincross View Post
    Until he actually refuses service to a protected class of people he hasn't violated the law.
    The following is from EEOC Informal Discussion Letter and is posted for whatever value it may add to this discussion. Though specific to EEOC violations, other civil rights violations will rely on different laws. I think the following is illustrative of how issues like this are viewed by competent authorities.

    "Explanation of Prohibited Conduct: The policy defines "harassment" as "verbal or physical conduct that denigrates or shows hostility or aversion toward an individual, ...Therefore, we recommend that harassment be defined more broadly as "verbal or physical conduct based on race, color, sex, national origin, religion, age, disability, or retaliation, and that has the purpose or effect . . . ."

    Again, IANAL. My take is that one would likely have to scour both state and Federal law to find definitions of things like harassment to fully determine if his utterance absent an actual example of discrimination is lawful or not. Nonetheless, TXDPS controls who may instruct and test and certify for CHL issuance; it is certainly their call as to what to do about him, if anything.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  4. #78
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayzor View Post
    I'm tired of everybody having to be good example and "ambassador" of 2A rights so the anti's and brady bunch can't use it against us.
    Fact is - guns are dangerous when in the wrong hands. Many think they are dangerous sitting in a safe.
    I think that most anti folks won't come around to support gun ownership until they have a close call w/ their own safety, and for many that won't do it.
    Saying that this instructor/FFL is going to affect public opinion re. gun ownership/concealed carry is crazy. The haters still hate and the lovers still love.
    If he wants to make bold statements - have at it. He is free to run his business the way he wants, and get involved in any legal issues that may follow.
    There are alot of gun owners, and I would bet that there are more in his area that agree with him than do not.
    And I'm tired of the fact that we always have to fight to keep the 2nd ammendment alive. The fact is we do and winning that fight sometimes requires winning enough public support to win at the ballot box. Anyone who believes that image doesn't matter in this age of you tube and all the other media gadgetry that exists is only fooling himself. Maintaining gun rights seems to be a constant battle and battles aren't won by being stupid.
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  5. #79
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    I see you all getting your shorts in a wade over what he said and it being against the law. Will I thought burning the flag was against the law too. But there has been many times that has happened and the powers of this Country just smile and tell us they are just expressing their right to free speech.

    Now which of these two cases of free speech do you think the Founding Fathers would be the most upset with? Most of the stink is because he was speaking about Obama and Muslims. While this Country has freedom of religion it was founded on foundamental Christian beliefs and we should stick to them. Others can worship the way they want, but the Country is Christian as well as English being our language.

    I don't think our Founding Fathers said the Country had no religion just that we all had the right to worship the way we wished.
    ErnieNWillis likes this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    I see you all getting your shorts in a wade over what he said and it being against the law. Will I thought burning the flag was against the law too. But there has been many times that has happened and the powers of this Country just smile and tell us they are just expressing their right to free speech.

    Now which of these two cases of free speech do you think the Founding Fathers would be the most upset with? Most of the stink is because he was speaking about Obama and Muslims. While this Country has freedom of religion it was founded on foundamental Christian beliefs and we should stick to them. Others can worship the way they want, but the Country is Christian as well as English being our language.

    I don't think our Founding Fathers said the Country had no religion just that we all had the right to worship the way we wished.
    Just in case you hadn't noticed, 200 + years have passed since the founding, during which there was a Civil War and a bunch of amendments added to the founding documents--to say nothing of innumerable court rulings and Congressional enactments. We are not what existed 200+ years ago and should not try to be that. Ya know, George Washington the champion of American freedom owned slaves. Thomas Jefferson was born into a state which had an official religion, and in his lifetime that law was abolished; and he spoke about a wall of separation. Andrew Jackson, not a founder but close, had no problems with genocide. It is now 2011 and we are in a different world.
    azchevy likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  7. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    I see you all getting your shorts in a wade over what he said and it being against the law. Will I thought burning the flag was against the law too. But there has been many times that has happened and the powers of this Country just smile and tell us they are just expressing their right to free speech.

    Now which of these two cases of free speech do you think the Founding Fathers would be the most upset with? Most of the stink is because he was speaking about Obama and Muslims. While this Country has freedom of religion it was founded on foundamental Christian beliefs and we should stick to them. Others can worship the way they want, but the Country is Christian as well as English being our language.

    I don't think our Founding Fathers said the Country had no religion just that we all had the right to worship the way we wished.
    No where in the Declaration, Constitution or any other founding documents are the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost mentioned or implied. The idea that the country was founded on fundamental Christian beliefs is a fundamentally-Christian point of view.
    WvHiker and gilraen like this.

  8. #82
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    This OP is not on what I'm posting so well say no more, but when this Country is no more and you wonder what and who allowed this to happen just look in the mirror.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    This OP is not on what I'm posting so well say no more, but when this Country is no more and you wonder what and who allowed this to happen just look in the mirror.
    Thankfully I was well traveled in my life and I have seen first hand what other countries are and continue to laugh at those who think this country will be no more or that this country isn't free.

    Feel free to move to a better country if you think we are going to be no more.
    Hopyard, wmhawth and WvHiker like this.

  10. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    Take it all from this moronic hillbilly religious zealot!
    Well said.

    He would have been right at home in Nazi Germany.

  11. #85
    Member Array WvHiker's Avatar
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    This is not a Christian country; we do not have a state religion.

  12. #86
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    WOW...

    I have read all of the posts on this subject and it appears to me that this country has been subverted by bleeding heart liberals that grew up without a Dad to keep them on the right track.

    The only reason that this guy is getting any air time at all is because the news media is predominately liberal. Since the news media in general doesn't really report news that is worthy of watching anymore, they use this guy and the fact that he is a conservative that speaks his mind as a whipping post for those that think being politicallyally correct is the right thing to be.

    If you dont like what he said, then ignore him. I see this as a guy that is fed up and he is not afraid to tell it like he sees it and he could care less that you dont like it.

    Yet the bleeding hearts choose to murder his character and talk about taking his liscense or stopping his business or arresting him for a crime that he is about to commit because they dont like what he says.

    Good grief people.
    This is a silly thing to argue about.

    For you rocket scientists that think he would have been at home in Nazi Germany or that this country wasn't founded on religious principals,and you liberals that insist on being offended, consider this...this was a radio ad that was aired by the radio station. If the radio station thought for a minute that this add violated any laws, then they would not have aired it.

    Get on with your lives. This is much ado about nothing.

  13. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Should he be punished if no one has been discriminated against or actually harmed. I can see the State taking action if someone who has been discriminated against complains but until that happens should any sanctions against him be brought?

    Unless he backs up his threat with action has anyone been harmed? I understand there is a law against certain forms of discrimination. Can you break that law without actually discriminating against a person? Can I be arrested for proclaiming that I will drink and drive?

    Michael
    Didnt he basically just tell certain groups of people not to show up? To me, that's turning them away, or close to it.
    Fortune favors the bold.

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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandBob View Post
    If you dont like what he said, then ignore him.
    With attitudes like this....women still wouldnt have the vote and blacks would still be sitting at the back of the bus.

    Ignorance benefits no one. The more that we disenfranchise ANY group of our citizens, the more we create conflict for our country.
    gilraen likes this.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #89
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    Lemme play devil's advocate.

    After hearing Keller's ad the locals flood Keller's carry class because they agree with his way of thinking. After seeing their enrollments drop the other CHL instructors in the area also start running similar ads saying they won't teach non-Christians or Arabs, etc. I'm a newly minted doctor recruited to come to this town because the town clinic can't get a doctor any other way. I'm a naturalized U.S. citizen of Indian descent (South Asia), a non-christian, and the only non-white guy for a fifteen mile radius.

    How far do I have to drive to take the class so I can exercise my right to carry a pistol for protection just so that all these CHL instructors can run their private business the way they see fit? 15 miles? 30 miles? 100 miles?

    What if the gas stations in the area also choose to exercise this supposed absolute right to run their business as they see fit and refuse to sell me gas along the way? It's probably not too much of a problem if you're in a metro area as you can probably find some service station that will sell gas to a guy with different color skin, but if you're in West Texas, you better call ahead to make sure you know where that gas station is because the towns are few and far between. It doesn't even have to be EVERY station for this sort of behavior to have a significant impact. "Just go to the next station down the road" you say. How many do I have to stop at only to find they won't sell me gas because of this supposed absolute right they can run their business the way they see fit? How much more do I have to spend in gas driving around to find a gas station that will sell to me than the white guy who can buy gas anywhere?

    Your right to run your business as you see fit only runs until it starts to interfere with my right to have the same access to your store as any other member of the general public. The declaration of independence said: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. The second you as a business owner refuse service to an entire group of citizens based on what they are, the color of their skin, their religious belief, etc., you are basically saying that all men are not created equal. That's not what the founders would have wanted. It's not right. We put laws in place to prevent it. Those laws ought to be enforced and this guy ought to lose his license as an instructor.
    gilraen and TonyDTrigger like this.

  16. #90
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteox View Post
    Lemme play devil's advocate.

    After hearing Keller's ad the locals flood Keller's carry class because they agree with his way of thinking. After seeing their enrollments drop the other CHL instructors in the area also start running similar ads saying they won't teach non-Christians or Arabs, etc. I'm a newly minted doctor recruited to come to this town because the town clinic can't get a doctor any other way. I'm a naturalized U.S. citizen of Indian descent (South Asia), a non-christian, and the only non-white guy for a fifteen mile radius.

    How far do I have to drive to take the class so I can exercise my right to carry a pistol for protection just so that all these CHL instructors can run their private business the way they see fit? 15 miles? 30 miles? 100 miles?

    What if the gas stations in the area also choose to exercise this supposed absolute right to run their business as they see fit and refuse to sell me gas along the way? It's probably not too much of a problem if you're in a metro area as you can probably find some service station that will sell gas to a guy with different color skin, but if you're in West Texas, you better call ahead to make sure you know where that gas station is because the towns are few and far between. It doesn't even have to be EVERY station for this sort of behavior to have a significant impact. "Just go to the next station down the road" you say. How many do I have to stop at only to find they won't sell me gas because of this supposed absolute right they can run their business the way they see fit? How much more do I have to spend in gas driving around to find a gas station that will sell to me than the white guy who can buy gas anywhere?

    Your right to run your business as you see fit only runs until it starts to interfere with my right to have the same access to your store as any other member of the general public. The declaration of independence said: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. The second you as a business owner refuse service to an entire group of citizens based on what they are, the color of their skin, their religious belief, etc., you are basically saying that all men are not created equal. That's not what the founders would have wanted. It's not right. We put laws in place to prevent it. Those laws ought to be enforced and this guy ought to lose his license as an instructor.
    You would really have a problem if you wanted a beer and he owned the only bar in town
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