Crockett Keller May Loose CHL Instructor Lic. for Radio Ad - Page 7

Crockett Keller May Loose CHL Instructor Lic. for Radio Ad

This is a discussion on Crockett Keller May Loose CHL Instructor Lic. for Radio Ad within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by whiteox Lemme play devil's advocate. After hearing Keller's ad the locals flood Keller's carry class because they agree with his way of ...

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 3456789 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 122
Like Tree126Likes

Thread: Crockett Keller May Loose CHL Instructor Lic. for Radio Ad

  1. #91
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Quote Originally Posted by whiteox View Post
    Lemme play devil's advocate.

    After hearing Keller's ad the locals flood Keller's carry class because they agree with his way of thinking. After seeing their enrollments drop the other CHL instructors in the area also start running similar ads saying they won't teach non-Christians or Arabs, etc. I'm a newly minted doctor recruited to come to this town because the town clinic can't get a doctor any other way. I'm a naturalized U.S. citizen of Indian descent (South Asia), a non-christian, and the only non-white guy for a fifteen mile radius.

    How far do I have to drive to take the class so I can exercise my right to carry a pistol for protection just so that all these CHL instructors can run their private business the way they see fit? 15 miles? 30 miles? 100 miles?
    :SNIP:
    It is illegal for him to discriminate. You should point this out to him and if he still refuses his service to you then you should file a complaint. It is at that point that he has discriminated against you.

    Michael


  2. #92
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Western Colorado
    Posts
    4,562
    WOW...

    I have read all of the posts on this subject and it appears to me that this country has been subverted by bleeding heart liberals that grew up without a Dad to keep them on the right track.

    The only reason that this guy is getting any air time at all is because the news media is predominately liberal. Since the news media in general doesn't really report news that is worthy of watching anymore, they use this guy and the fact that he is a conservative that speaks his mind as a whipping post for those that think being politicallyally correct is the right thing to be.
    Taking a dim view of stupidity doesn't make one a "bleeding heart liberal". Supporting foolishness on the other hand does make one foolish.

    If you dont like what he said, then ignore him. I see this as a guy that is fed up and he is not afraid to tell it like he sees it and he could care less that you dont like it.
    I doubt he put that much thought process into it. You're giving him too much credit.

  3. #93
    Senior Member Array Herknav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Waypoint 0
    Posts
    986
    I read earlier that "DPS is considering pulling his license." I don't know what that entails, but unless it involes him having due process, I'm not a fan.
    DontTreadOnI likes this.
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

  4. #94
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,843
    IMO.......He's not forced to teach anyone he doesn't want to.............just don't make it political.
    DontTreadOnI likes this.

  5. #95
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    804
    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    And I'm tired of the fact that we always have to fight to keep the 2nd ammendment alive. The fact is we do and winning that fight sometimes requires winning enough public support to win at the ballot box. Anyone who believes that image doesn't matter in this age of you tube and all the other media gadgetry that exists is only fooling himself. Maintaining gun rights seems to be a constant battle and battles aren't won by being stupid.
    You can find anything you want on Youtube. Crazy gun zealots, idiotic anti gunners, reasonable gun owners and even intelligent folks with well thought out arguments for cun control. Everyone finds exactly what they want. If you want crazy gun instructors - you got it, unsafe dopes shooting themselves - you got it, rambling anti's - they're on it as well.
    I don't buy the "clean cut gun owner" requirement to turn public opinion.
    Public opinion is turning because normal folks realize that the cops can't be everywhere, there are some really bad people out there, and they better take some responsibility for the safety of their family.

    Gun rights are being won and maintained because of reality - people are noticing that gun control laws don't reduce crime or make you safer. People protecting themselves with guns does.
    HotGuns likes this.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

  6. #96
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Western Colorado
    Posts
    4,562
    Quote Originally Posted by hayzor View Post
    You can find anything you want on Youtube. Crazy gun zealots, idiotic anti gunners, reasonable gun owners and even intelligent folks with well thought out arguments for cun control. Everyone finds exactly what they want. If you want crazy gun instructors - you got it, unsafe dopes shooting themselves - you got it, rambling anti's - they're on it as well.
    I don't buy the "clean cut gun owner" requirement to turn public opinion.
    Public opinion is turning because normal folks realize that the cops can't be everywhere, there are some really bad people out there, and they better take some responsibility for the safety of their family.

    Gun rights are being won and maintained because of reality - people are noticing that gun control laws don't reduce crime or make you safer. People protecting themselves with guns does.
    You are more optimistic than I am. I forsee trouble ahead for gunrights as we know them when the generation of kids who have been brainwashed from birth by the schools and the media to believe that guns are uncool, dangerous and evil begin running the show. I don't think we need to be further stacking the cards against ourselves. I cringe each time some gun owner goes rogue and shoots out the lights or when some inbred yokel who is supposed to be one of us spouts gibberish and it all gets national attention. These things add up to create a negative image of all of us that can only harm our cause. The hardcore antis are already a lost cause but I would hope to salvage some favorable opinion among the undecided and those who really haven't thought too much about gun rights. We've had some recent successes for sure but I'm afraid that I don't see a positive future for the right to keep and bear arms down the road. I do hope I'm wrong.

  7. #97
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Texas High Plains
    Posts
    568
    I've watched this thread for a few days now, and have avoided posting. This will be my only post here. First, I agree that Keller is a dolt. During the 15 years that I was a Texas CHL instructor, I attended a renewal class with DPS every other year, and I've heard some comments and questions from other instructors that made Keller's advertisement sound intellectual and well-reasoned. Shocking, some have been. You just can't put that many people together and not find a few dumbasses. I am also an attorney, and while I do little civil rights work, I have handled a few such cases over the past 23+ years, and I do frequently advise employers on issues involving discrimination.

    This situation presents some interesting (to me at least) legal questions. Whether DPS can suspend or revoke his license, for instance, is not a simple question. DPS has always made it clear that while they train us and issue our instructor's certificates, they do not intend to get involved with the way we conduct our business. The licensure issue to a degree straddles the fence between being solely a matter of how he chooses to conduct his business, and the degree to which his license makes him subject to the same anti-discrimination laws as a public entity, or even a landlord. I don't have a firm opinion on how that will turn out. Attempts to analogize this case to employer/employee or workplace discrimination are inapposite, I believe.

    There is no "right" to a CHL, as is made abundantly clear in the CHL statute. Regardless of how staunch a 2nd Amendment supporter one of us may be, that is what the law says on its face, so we're stuck with it being a privilege, not a right. Therefore, Keller's denial of teaching a Muslim, or, heaven forfend, a Democrat, does not infringe on those prospective students' rights. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's not committed some kind of statutory discrimination. Time will tell.

    There has always been, and will always be, legal and societal tension between the rights and privileges of landlords and tenants, business proprietors and their customers, government and citizens, etc. Despite my personal disgust with dumbasses, even a moron ought to be able to run his business as he sees fit, subject to whatever laws with which he is burdened. Whether Keller overstepped legal bounds is not as clear as some might think. Don't get me wrong; I'm not taking up for him, because as others have commented, guys like him are often used against us by the antis to try to make us all look like uneducated backwoods bubbas. He's certainly done nothing to advance the cause of gun rights, but that alone doesn't mean that he has violated the law. Again, time will tell. I'll be watching this with great interest.
    DefConGun and 9MMare like this.

  8. #98
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,124
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLeVick View Post
    I've watched this thread for a few days now, and have avoided posting. This will be my only post here. First, I agree that Keller is a dolt. During the 15 years that I was a Texas CHL instructor, I attended a renewal class with DPS every other year, and I've heard some comments and questions from other instructors that made Keller's advertisement sound intellectual and well-reasoned. Shocking, some have been. You just can't put that many people together and not find a few dumbasses. I am also an attorney, and while I do little civil rights work, I have handled a few such cases over the past 23+ years, and I do frequently advise employers on issues involving discrimination.

    This situation presents some interesting (to me at least) legal questions. Whether DPS can suspend or revoke his license, for instance, is not a simple question. DPS has always made it clear that while they train us and issue our instructor's certificates, they do not intend to get involved with the way we conduct our business. The licensure issue to a degree straddles the fence between being solely a matter of how he chooses to conduct his business, and the degree to which his license makes him subject to the same anti-discrimination laws as a public entity, or even a landlord. I don't have a firm opinion on how that will turn out. Attempts to analogize this case to employer/employee or workplace discrimination are inapposite, I believe.

    There is no "right" to a CHL, as is made abundantly clear in the CHL statute. Regardless of how staunch a 2nd Amendment supporter one of us may be, that is what the law says on its face, so we're stuck with it being a privilege, not a right. Therefore, Keller's denial of teaching a Muslim, or, heaven forfend, a Democrat, does not infringe on those prospective students' rights. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's not committed some kind of statutory discrimination. Time will tell.

    There has always been, and will always be, legal and societal tension between the rights and privileges of landlords and tenants, business proprietors and their customers, government and citizens, etc. Despite my personal disgust with dumbasses, even a moron ought to be able to run his business as he sees fit, subject to whatever laws with which he is burdened. Whether Keller overstepped legal bounds is not as clear as some might think. Don't get me wrong; I'm not taking up for him, because as others have commented, guys like him are often used against us by the antis to try to make us all look like uneducated backwoods bubbas. He's certainly done nothing to advance the cause of gun rights, but that alone doesn't mean that he has violated the law. Again, time will tell. I'll be watching this with great interest.
    I put two sentences in bold. The first I agree with; though they are illustrative of the sorts of things that go into thinking about discrimination. The second, as you say, time will tell.

    I do think that when a state grants you an authority the state has an obligation to make certain you carry out that authority in a non-discriminatory manner. It doesn't matter if you are granted a license to cut hair, a license to practice medicine, or the authority to sign documents---perhaps as a notary; in this instance as a CHL instructor.
    TonyDTrigger likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  9. #99
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    N/E Florida
    Posts
    3,332
    What about the sign on the door or behind the counter that reads " We have the RIGHT to refuse service to ANYONE" ; )
    H/D
    A Native Floridian = RARE


    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
    H/D

  10. #100
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    383
    I'm no fan of the concept of licenses, but since they exist and are in force here lets continue.

    If this guy has a firearms training school I would see no legal issues involved here, however he went to the government to basically obtain their "stamp of approval" as a licensed instructor. The implication of licensure is that the licensee is endorsed by and approved by the government. He becomes IMO a de-facto agent of the government when he uses that license.... so any discriminatory behavior could result in him losing his endorsement.
    Hopyard and DefConGun like this.

  11. #101
    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    301
    In WI I am not licensed by the State. The State will accept my NRA instructor certification as proof of my ability to teach others. So does that mean that I can refuse to teach certain people at my private business and not be accused of discrimination? As I said before I do not agree with this "gentleman" but I also think that making a statement should not open you up to action by the Government. Since he is not the sole provider of this service in Texas he should be left to fail on his own while his open minded and sane competitors take his business.

  12. #102
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    12,081
    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    What about the sign on the door or behind the counter that reads " We have the RIGHT to refuse service to ANYONE" ; )
    H/D
    A sign behind the counter proclaiming a right does not in and of itself implement that right, nor does it necessarily carry the weight of law.

  13. #103
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,124
    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    What about the sign on the door or behind the counter that reads " We have the RIGHT to refuse service to ANYONE" ; )
    H/D
    It is interesting that few have spoken about his comment that if you voted for Obama he wouldn't teach you.

    I suspect that none of our discrimination laws specify that it is illegal to discriminate based on political viewpoints; perhaps they should, perhaps not. But in his case he is also doing a quasi-government function. Just thinking out loud. I don't know enough to know how things would play out in the real world.

    Now, what would our country look like, be like, feel like, if folks routinely hung signs on their store; NO ELEPHANTS. Or, getting ugly, "we don't serve ex-military." Or, "If you liked Ike, you're out."

    From a business perspective of course any such acts are going to reduce your income. Maybe that is the self-corrective mechanism.
    9MMare likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  14. #104
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    va.
    Posts
    696
    It's a private business and yes, he also has rights. He can choose to do business as he pleases. Let the market determine if he survives. The comparison to food and energy suppliers does'nt really apply as those are required to survive and have to be available to all. A CCW? no. It is purely elective and if someone does not like the way he conducts business, they can go somewhere else. The govt. has WAY too much to say about how we live and conduct our affairs already..please don't give them anymore power.
    If you don't agree with him, go elsewhere. If the majority agree with that opinion, he'll dry up and go away. Thats the way it should be, not big brother telling him the way he has to act. If he breaks a law( which I don't believe he has), thats a different story. JMO
    Light travels faster than sound...thats why some people appear bright before they speak

  15. #105
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,124
    Quote Originally Posted by boatail View Post
    It's a private business and yes, he also has rights. He can choose to do business as he pleases. Let the market determine if he survives. The comparison to food and energy suppliers does'nt really apply as those are required to survive and have to be available to all. A CCW? no. It is purely elective and if someone does not like the way he conducts business, they can go somewhere else. The govt. has WAY too much to say about how we live and conduct our affairs already..please don't give them anymore power.
    If you don't agree with him, go elsewhere. If the majority agree with that opinion, he'll dry up and go away. Thats the way it should be, not big brother telling him the way he has to act. If he breaks a law( which I don't believe he has), thats a different story. JMO
    Remarking on what I put in bold--- can discrimination be allowed for CHL's which are necessary to exercise one's 2A rights? Effective issuance of the CHL is in some ways of more importance to government than whether or not you have gotten a meal. (And that is said with no love whatsoever for the late Axe Handle man, Lester Maddox).

    Isn't the key issue as to whether or not you can do what you want determined on whether or not you are providing a public service v a private one?

    OK, I'm teaching a child's swim class and I'm advertising it to the public in the newspaper. It is my personal business. Can I legally prohibit Caucasians from taking my course?

    We have too many folks here who still want to live in the 1870s.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 3456789 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

ccw radio ad
,
chl instructor loses license for speaking about a civil war
,
chl utube comercial
,
crocket keller
,

crockett keller

,

crockett keller discrimination

,

crokett keller

,
how much can a chl instructor make
,

how much do chl instructors make

,
how much does a chl instructor make
,
kettleman+racist+chl instructor
,
racist chl instructor
,
racist chl license
,
texas gun chl comercial
,
tx chl commercial
Click on a term to search for related topics.