This is a discussion on USCCA, Again. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Tim of USCCA seems to be out for money and not much else, despite what he claims. I joined for one year, dropped out, and ...
November 4th, 2011 02:27 PM
Tim of USCCA seems to be out for money and not much else, despite what he claims. I joined for one year, dropped out, and finally about 2 years later, rarely get an email from him even after asking him to unsubscribe me.
Give him a wide berth. He's not worth it.
"I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."
November 4th, 2011 04:27 PM
For USCCA, ACLDN and all the others who claim to offer insurance...
Think about it for 60 seconds. How could anyone even begin to offer this type of insurance? There are simply far too many variables. They are simply collecting money you will never see again. You may as well give the money to a psychic or medium to foretell your future.
The funny thing about legal help for concealed carriers is this: if you don't do anything illegal, and it's a clear case of self-defense, you won't need any legal backup. If it turns out you were in the worng, they won't provide it. If it's a gray area, the insurer will argue with you and will try not to pay.
If the case is "winnable", it would most likely never even be brought to court.
If the case is gray, but your conscience is clear, you'll be happy to be alive, and will simply have to take anything the legal system throws at you.
No one can insure you for any of that. It's ALL a scam.
November 4th, 2011 05:17 PM
I like your thinking on this!
Originally Posted by oakchas
Who is John Galt?
Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us...
When political power is up for grabs, personal liberty is usually one of the first casualties…
November 4th, 2011 05:45 PM
The ACLDN doesn't offer insurance for your actions, they offer co-op coverage the "up front" attorney fees. Large difference from USCCA.
Originally Posted by MadMac
Here is ACLDN's disclaimer:
What is the role of the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Fund?
The purpose of the Network's Legal Defense Fund is to provide legal defense support to Network members, when these lawfully armed citizens face prosecution or civil lawsuit after exercising their right to self defense. The Legal Defense Fund is drawn from an allocation of 25% of all Network membership dues and 100% of all corporate sponsorship contributions.
The Network is a powerful series of up-front benefits and services provided directly to you and your attorney, not a fee-based reimbursement service or insurance program. If a member is involved in a self-defense incident, a fee deposit is paid to the member's attorney by the Network to get the legal defense immediately underway, with representation during questioning, and an independent investigation of the incident. If the incident results in felony charges the fee deposit is $10,000; if the member faces misdemeanor charges, a $5,000 fee deposit is sent to his or her attorney.
Network members have access to contact information for Network-affiliated attorneys, are entitled to case review by one of the Network experts and the assistance of expert witnesses. These powerful benefits are included in the Network memership fee. In addition, distribution of monetary grants to help with legal fees is at the discretion of the Network’s Advisory Board, which includes Massad Ayoob, John Farnam, Jim Fleming, Tom Givens, Dennis Tueller and Network officers, Marty Hayes and Vincent Shuck, as ex officio members.
A Network member who has been involved in a self-defense incident may request assistance by contacting the Network. The member’s attorney should outline the circumstances of the case and provide details that can be used by the Advisory Board to determine whether the Legal Defense Fund can participate in the member's legal defense efforts. Legal Defense Fund support is available to Network members for incidents that occurred during their Network membership period.
The ACLDN is very clear what you get for your bucks! No so with USCCA!
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress. -- John Adams
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free! -- P.J. O'Rourke
November 4th, 2011 06:05 PM
I disagree. It's still insurance, and it's still just as laden with cop-outs as USCCA. It's $5k coverage for a misdemeanor, and $10K for a felony rap. That's insurance no matter how you slice it or rebrand it. Plus, the board can give you and your attorney the big thumbs down if they feel the case would reflect badly on them. It's not like they coming running to your defense and drop the money on the table the day after you're arrested. They claim it's "up-front" co-op support. Please show me where I get any of these benefits "up front". Having your lawyer send them a write-up (that you had to pay him an hourly fee to write), and then Massad and his friends get to decide if and when they will send the money is hardly "up-front".
Originally Posted by onacoma
If you engage a criminal defense shortly at your arrest, you're not going to be able to use these flaky weasel words as an IOU for your bill. You'll still need to drop your personal coin on the table to get an attorney to take you on as a client. This falls under the heading of you-might-get-this-mouse-nuts-money-later. Or, you might not.
Do they publish their payout record? No? Didn't think so.
November 4th, 2011 08:43 PM
I joined for a year to try it out. After a few months I had enough and requested a prorated refund and they promptly obliged.
November 5th, 2011 12:29 PM
USCCA® is an absolute rip off. It is a waste of money and Tim Schmidt is nothing but a "Snake Oil Salesman" IMHO. I joined for a year and let my membership lapse. Had to delete an email account because of him spamming me so much. FWIW, "Front Sight" uses the same spammer software and will flood you w/their BS also.
Only two defining forces have ever died for you.....
1. Jesus Christ.
2. The American Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine, and Coast Guardsman.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom!
November 5th, 2011 12:45 PM
I will not be renewing to the USCCA because of this change. I will miss the mag.
November 5th, 2011 01:14 PM
+ thousands of others... no doubt.
Originally Posted by k5mow
It could be worse!
November 5th, 2011 08:27 PM
I joined, lapsed, joined again. After this I'm done.
I like Tim, but in the last year him and his company have started to look greasy to me.
I always wondered why the founder of the US Concealed Carry Assn lived and HQed in a non-CCW state. Of course now WI has CCW.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
November 5th, 2011 09:42 PM
Before I joined, I signed up for their "free" articles too. They were, indeed, free. However, since that time I was BOMBARDED with spam or useless emails from the USCCA, sometimes several times a day to get me to join, telling me how important it was for me to become a member, etc. . Hmmm....strange thing happened, after I decided to join for one year, the emails completely STOPPED. I get absolutely nothing form them anymore. Nothing more than a way to get our hard earned $$$ at the expense of concerned law abiding concealed carry folks. Now that we must take the insurance in order to continue membership, that's the nail on the coffin for me. I'm done with them. It was a waste of my $$$ to join....very EXPENSIVE magazine that is just mediocre, and a couple of stickers. The NRA's magazines are FAR better and more informative. I haven't gotten ANYTHING from USCCA that I didn't already know. I was on their forum for a short while and it wasn't that great. I wish I would have donated to this forum. I will definitely donate in the future. This is one of the best forums on concealed carry I have come accross lately. Just my 2c..............
November 6th, 2011 08:33 AM
I'm dropping my USCCA membership also, but since Front Sight was mentioned, I want to add something. I don't like the incessant advertising either, but my wife and I attended the 4-day Defensive Handgun course at Front Sight and found it to be excellent. As we were heading back home, my wife said, "When can we go back"? We are going back in April. With Front Sight, I purchased a life-time membership for less than most ranges charge for a weekend course. I've already more than my money's worth by attending the 4-day course. It costs me nothing to maintain the membership and we can get further training at anytime for no additional cost. Also many of their weekly blogs or tips have been very good. Recently (while co-advertising Tim Larkin's Target Focus Training) FS has sent out some videos of very violent beatings and knifings that I've never seen anywhere else and there is a lot to be learned from them. So even though I don't like the ubiquitous ads, I feel like what I'm getting from Front Sight is worth it. And all it takes is one click to make an ad disappear. In the case of USCCA, I like the mag and the forum, but refuse to be forced into the insurance plan to get those two benefits.
Originally Posted by dawei
November 6th, 2011 09:02 AM
Interesting thread...I had a conversation with the wife just last night that went a lot like most of the posts here...
I've been a member of USCCA for almost one year...I will not renew...I will not pay for his "insurance" program...
And as others have said...I learn more just reading this forum than I've learned from their slick magazine...
"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
November 6th, 2011 01:41 PM
I used to be a moderator over on their forum. 'Nuff said.
November 10th, 2011 09:11 AM
I started a thread like this over on the Taurus Forum, (rdp357) one of the members over there linked to this thread. Everything I've read by the members on DC forum about USCCA is true. I'm still a Gold member on that site, just letting my membership run out and will not renew. I contacted customer service over there and asked to be taken off the marketing list so I would not get so many emails for the Shield. NOW I receive NO emails at all, not even the Concealed Carry weekly report, plus I haven't even received my copy of the latest magazine issue. You either buy the Shield or they don't want you there, there is a mass exodus going on over on that site.
If you are checking out the program, read the fine details.
Just my 2 cents worth!!!!!
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