USCCA, Again.

Printable View

Show 50 post(s) from this thread on one page

November 10th, 2011, 01:33 PM
onacoma

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMac

Do they publish their payout record? No? Didn't think so.

An email I received today from ACLDN: (name(s) been changed to protect..... - Jack Webb)

Dear Onacoma,

After closing the books for 2011, the Network will post in the member-only portion of the Network website an audit of the Legal Defense Fund, though in that document there will be no names released of any member(s) receiving funding, only the distribution of that assistance.

Some group(s) try their best to be open and up front.
November 10th, 2011, 06:44 PM
bolocanolo

Funny thing!!! Since my last email requesting information on "defense shield" I have not received any more emails, either from the organization or spamming me for "defense shield". Heck...I didn't even get the email onacoma got, announcing the "distribution of assistance", by defense shield. This emal to member, (of defense shield) could be a direct result of what it's being said in this forum and other furums. Offering scant information will not keep the members renewing. I think they see "the writting on the wall".
November 10th, 2011, 10:24 PM
TN_Mike

They put out a good magazine but not good enough to put up with this BS. I was a member until last year and then just didn't renew, lazy I guess. But now, with this development, I will not be becoming a member again.
November 10th, 2011, 10:32 PM
gasmitty

I thought it was an interesting operation and signed on for a couple of years. The best part was their forum, but it was teeming with people new to carry, and I was interested in what experienced folk had to say. Then Tim started bombarding me with "special offers" about how to grow an enterprise, and it struck me that he was leveraging his personal interest in being armed into a money-making scheme. More than anything else, the incessant marketing crap turned me off. I didn't renew and I have no regrets. I unsubscribed at least twice to his marketing email and finally just directed it to my spam folder. Done.
November 12th, 2011, 05:58 PM
Dadoo

I was on their mailing list for a time, although not a paying member of the group. I got tired of all the spam and pleas for money, so I opted out from their email.
November 12th, 2011, 07:38 PM
eethomas

Quote:

Originally Posted by k5mow

I will not be renewing to the USCCA because of this change. I will miss the mag.

Roger

+1. I have been a member for about 3 years. I really enjoy the magazine, but I have received the notice that my current membership is not renewable without the Defense Shield coverage. I will not be renewing when my membership expires next month.
November 12th, 2011, 11:22 PM
SigMan22

I am getting email after email after email from this guy too. This is getting to be worse than political phone call before an election!
November 13th, 2011, 12:04 PM
IWLAFART

:aargh4: I was a Gold member for years but when this Defense Shield scam came out I decided to cancel my subscription on Nov. 1,2011 that was due to expire in 2015. I am still waiting on my $86.42 refund. Even while typing this e-mail I got an e-mail from Tim for his Big USCCA "Bottom Dollar Sale". Won't he ever quit? Hey Tim NO means NO.
November 13th, 2011, 12:28 PM
AFVeteran19

yeah I'm done with them, loved the mag and liked the forum but this was the last straw.....
November 13th, 2011, 01:34 PM
64zebra

I was a member for a year, and while the mag had some good articles, etc, it wasn't worth the price, and this insurance thing is total crap
I used to recommend the site/mag/membership to others....not even close to doing that now
November 13th, 2011, 04:27 PM
boricua

This is what I posted on January 10, 2009 at 12:33pm on a thread called "USCCA Member?"

"Not for me. I was subscribed to his emails, but I grew skeptical about his intentions...just my nature."
November 13th, 2011, 05:51 PM
jmlampert23

place is a joke. it is just a money maker. I thought about joining a year or so ago but glad i didnt
November 14th, 2011, 08:31 PM
Marty Hayes

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMac

For USCCA, ACLDN and all the others who claim to offer insurance...

Think about it for 60 seconds. How could anyone even begin to offer this type of insurance? There are simply far too many variables. They are simply collecting money you will never see again. You may as well give the money to a psychic or medium to foretell your future.

The funny thing about legal help for concealed carriers is this: if you don't do anything illegal, and it's a clear case of self-defense, you won't need any legal backup. If it turns out you were in the worng, they won't provide it. If it's a gray area, the insurer will argue with you and will try not to pay.

If the case is "winnable", it would most likely never even be brought to court.

If the case is gray, but your conscience is clear, you'll be happy to be alive, and will simply have to take anything the legal system throws at you.

No one can insure you for any of that. It's ALL a scam.

MadMac... Not sure what we did to earn your wrath, but whatever we did, I am truly sorry. When I started ACLDN, it was with the intent to gather a few thousand armed citizens together under our banner, who understand the legal problems one can run into if they use a gun for self-defense, and with strength comes numbers. We have saved over $150,000 paid in by the members, which is sitting in a seperate bank account to be used if any members get into legal trouble after a self-defense incident. The $5k and $10k is just up-front retainer to get your legal representation going. After that, assuming that you didn't commit an overt illegal act, (like murder your wife and claim self-defense) and assuming you request it, we will come to your aid, (after we review the case file). Some people think that is too restrictive, but we currently have 4,500 members who have accepted those terms, and that's good enough for me.

Please don't include ACLDN in the same group as insurance. We are more like the AAA or a trade union of armed citizens. We are unique in the industry, but we are not insurance. You will never get a penny from us for any act which may occur to you. We WILL help you with your legal issues, under the terms outlined above.

One more thing, if you e-mail me, mhayes@armedcitizensnetwork.org I will respond personally. If you call, 360-978-5200, either my wife or I will answer the phone personally.

Lastly, regarding our "payout record." Since our inception in January 2008, we have had one member ask for assistance after a self-defense incident. Within 24 hours of that request, we hired a local attorney for him, and paid his bill. Since the member was charged with 2 felony counts of aggravated assault, we forwarded the $10,000. This member was a honored Iraqi War vet, who had been assaulted and he drew his gun to stop the assault. No shots were fired, and after a review of the facts, we believed it was justifiable. The $10k was all the attorney needed to represent him, he was never tried, and is today, a free man, with no criminal record.

And, if you count the Larry Hickey case we (ACLDN) worked on free of charge in 2009/2010, we are now 2 for 2 on legal cases.

Take care MadMac. While I expect you will pass on joining ACLDN, please don't hate us, okay? We are not the bad guys.

Marty Hayes, President
The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.
November 14th, 2011, 09:01 PM
jem102

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMac

For USCCA, ACLDN and all the others who claim to offer insurance...

Think about it for 60 seconds. How could anyone even begin to offer this type of insurance? There are simply far too many variables. They are simply collecting money you will never see again. You may as well give the money to a psychic or medium to foretell your future.

The funny thing about legal help for concealed carriers is this: if you don't do anything illegal, and it's a clear case of self-defense, you won't need any legal backup. If it turns out you were in the worng, they won't provide it. If it's a gray area, the insurer will argue with you and will try not to pay.

If the case is "winnable", it would most likely never even be brought to court.

If the case is gray, but your conscience is clear, you'll be happy to be alive, and will simply have to take anything the legal system throws at you.

No one can insure you for any of that. It's ALL a scam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMac

I disagree. It's still insurance, and it's still just as laden with cop-outs as USCCA. It's $5k coverage for a misdemeanor, and $10K for a felony rap. That's insurance no matter how you slice it or rebrand it. Plus, the board can give you and your attorney the big thumbs down if they feel the case would reflect badly on them. It's not like they coming running to your defense and drop the money on the table the day after you're arrested. They claim it's "up-front" co-op support. Please show me where I get any of these benefits "up front". Having your lawyer send them a write-up (that you had to pay him an hourly fee to write), and then Massad and his friends get to decide if and when they will send the money is hardly "up-front".

If you engage a criminal defense shortly at your arrest, you're not going to be able to use these flaky weasel words as an IOU for your bill. You'll still need to drop your personal coin on the table to get an attorney to take you on as a client. This falls under the heading of you-might-get-this-mouse-nuts-money-later. Or, you might not.

Do they publish their payout record? No? Didn't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Hayes

MadMac... Not sure what we did to earn your wrath, but whatever we did, I am truly sorry. When I started ACLDN, it was with the intent to gather a few thousand armed citizens together under our banner, who understand the legal problems one can run into if they use a gun for self-defense, and with strength comes numbers. We have saved over $150,000 paid in by the members, which is sitting in a seperate bank account to be used if any members get into legal trouble after a self-defense incident. The $5k and $10k is just up-front retainer to get your legal representation going. After that, assuming that you didn't commit an overt illegal act, (like murder your wife and claim self-defense) and assuming you request it, we will come to your aid, (after we review the case file). Some people think that is too restrictive, but we currently have 4,500 members who have accepted those terms, and that's good enough for me.

Please don't include ACLDN in the same group as insurance. We are more like the AAA or a trade union of armed citizens. We are unique in the industry, but we are not insurance. You will never get a penny from us for any act which may occur to you. We WILL help you with your legal issues, under the terms outlined above.

One more thing, if you e-mail me, mhayes@armedcitizensnetwork.org I will respond personally. If you call, 360-978-5200, either my wife or I will answer the phone personally.

Lastly, regarding our "payout record." Since our inception in January 2008, we have had one member ask for assistance after a self-defense incident. Within 24 hours of that request, we hired a local attorney for him, and paid his bill. Since the member was charged with 2 felony counts of aggravated assault, we forwarded the $10,000. This member was a honored Iraqi War vet, who had been assaulted and he drew his gun to stop the assault. No shots were fired, and after a review of the facts, we believed it was justifiable. The $10k was all the attorney needed to represent him, he was never tried, and is today, a free man, with no criminal record.

And, if you count the Larry Hickey case we (ACLDN) worked on free of charge in 2009/2010, we are now 2 for 2 on legal cases.

Take care MadMac. While I expect you will pass on joining ACLDN, please don't hate us, okay? We are not the bad guys.

Marty Hayes, President
The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.

I don't see the word "hate" in any of his posts...but I think he has it nailed...
November 14th, 2011, 09:01 PM
10thmtn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Hayes

One more thing, if you e-mail me, mhayes@armedcitizensnetwork.org I will respond personally. If you call, 360-978-5200, either my wife or I will answer the phone personally.

Marty Hayes, President
The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.

My wife and I will both personally vouch for that!

Thanks for stopping by, Marty! :smile:

:bier:

Show 50 post(s) from this thread on one page