USCCA, Again.

This is a discussion on USCCA, Again. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 10thmtn My wife and I will both personally vouch for that! Thanks for stopping by, Marty! .....as will I. It's an honor ...

Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 124
Like Tree126Likes

Thread: USCCA, Again.

  1. #46
    Member Array Brademan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    150
    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    My wife and I will both personally vouch for that!

    Thanks for stopping by, Marty!

    .....as will I. It's an honor to work with Marty, Gila and Vincent.
    RugerMak likes this.
    Brademan
    Special Projects manager - ACLDN

    American Militia - charter member, NRA Life/Benefactor member
    LEAA Field Rep, Aikidoka, motorcyclist, plain speaker, straight shooter
    My other nickname is "3-Knife"

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #47
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,095
    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Hayes View Post
    MadMac... Not sure what we did to earn your wrath, but whatever we did, I am truly sorry. When I started ACLDN, it was with the intent to gather a few thousand armed citizens together under our banner, who understand the legal problems one can run into if they use a gun for self-defense, and with strength comes numbers. We have saved over $150,000 paid in by the members, which is sitting in a seperate bank account to be used if any members get into legal trouble after a self-defense incident. The $5k and $10k is just up-front retainer to get your legal representation going. After that, assuming that you didn't commit an overt illegal act, (like murder your wife and claim self-defense) and assuming you request it, we will come to your aid, (after we review the case file). Some people think that is too restrictive, but we currently have 4,500 members who have accepted those terms, and that's good enough for me.

    Please don't include ACLDN in the same group as insurance. We are more like the AAA or a trade union of armed citizens. We are unique in the industry, but we are not insurance. You will never get a penny from us for any act which may occur to you. We WILL help you with your legal issues, under the terms outlined above.

    One more thing, if you e-mail me, mhayes@armedcitizensnetwork.org I will respond personally. If you call, 360-978-5200, either my wife or I will answer the phone personally.

    Lastly, regarding our "payout record." Since our inception in January 2008, we have had one member ask for assistance after a self-defense incident. Within 24 hours of that request, we hired a local attorney for him, and paid his bill. Since the member was charged with 2 felony counts of aggravated assault, we forwarded the $10,000. This member was a honored Iraqi War vet, who had been assaulted and he drew his gun to stop the assault. No shots were fired, and after a review of the facts, we believed it was justifiable. The $10k was all the attorney needed to represent him, he was never tried, and is today, a free man, with no criminal record.

    And, if you count the Larry Hickey case we (ACLDN) worked on free of charge in 2009/2010, we are now 2 for 2 on legal cases.

    Take care MadMac. While I expect you will pass on joining ACLDN, please don't hate us, okay? We are not the bad guys.

    Marty Hayes, President
    The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.
    Dear Mr Hayes,

    Thank you for taking the time to post this very positive letter, and getting your coworkers to post in this thread. Diversity of opinion is healthy and illuminating. Please allow me to clarify my remarks:

    My statements are not the result of any "wrath" on my part. I will avoid being pedantic by posting the definition of the word. I would suggest you look it up as I don't think it means what you think it means.

    Also, you end by requesting that I don't "hate" you. I do not have time for "hate" - a wasted emotion in my book. I simply find your ersatz insurance program not worth the investment. I know it's very "hip" for you young people to decry any opinions with which you disagree as "hate", but I can happily assure you my humble, personal opinion of your services does not even begin to apprach any level of "hate". Please rest assured I hate neither you personally nor the services you offer. If 4500 people want to pay you for this peace of mind service and you can make a living from it, that's no issue for me.

    Your comparison to AAA seems apt, except for the fact I truly receive up-front services for my payment. They will come and tow/repair my car even if I was stupid enough to not watch my fuel gauge, or I drove recklessly. They provide a known insurance product, and yes, they are an insurance company.

    I would also like to point out as you boast of your "2 for 2" record of success over several years, that you and your board have the sweet luxury of picking and choosing whom to support with your program. I'll bet even a half-wit like me could maintain a solid record of success if I had the freedom to support only high-profile cases with a near certainty of winning. If ACLDN has a run on that $150K for some reason based on numerous members requiring your support, you could simply refuse to take any more cases until you have built your reserves back up. It's an actuarial game like insurance, except the ACLDN doesn't have to take any risks. I'd hate to be a paid-up member who needed your services during a peak time, and find myself denied because the board deemed my case "unworthy".

    Good luck with your company.

    MadMac
    jem102 likes this.

  4. #48
    Member Array mfcmb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    428
    The ACLDN is NOT insurance. It is an entirely different animal.

    I have had in my life two self defense insurance policies: One through the NRA, the other through MMD Brokers. Both policies will REIMBURSE your QUALIFYING expenses AFTER you are ACQUITTED. Their stance is that you must be acquitted (or case dismissed) before they can pay out so they are not paying for the support of a criminal act (as determined by you being convicted).

    The ACLDN provides a RETAINER to your lawyer UP FRONT. This gives you the financial resources to get your legal defense started immediately. Then their board of experts reviews the details of your situation and judges whether it APPEARS that you have made a "righteous" shoot. This is necessary so that they don't end up funding the defense of an obviously bad shoot. The people on the review board are experts in the field of citizen self defense with firearms, who WANT to HELP citizens who defend themselves; rather than corporate employees charged with finding any excuse to deny a claim. If your your shoot APPEARS to be righteous, the ACLDN will FUND YOUR DEFENSE up to an amount that balances how much it's likely to take vs how much is left in the legal defense fund.

    So to summarize: Insurance will reimburse you AFTER you've won your case. The ACLDN will give you funds UP FRONT to defend your case. Insurance companies want to pay out AS LITTLE as possible. The ACLDN wants to help citizen defenders AS MUCH as possible.

    As to Marty's use of the word "wrath" and "hate", I'll hazard the guess that it is a bit of an overreaction that occurred because he cares so much about helping people survive the legal aftermath of a self defense incident and he's got a lot of his life invested in trying to make the ACLDN an effective vehicle for doing this.

    And no, I do not "work for" the ACLDN, I'm merely a member. But I do believe in it and its people.
    RugerMak, CCBob and hogdoc357 like this.
    In the heat of the moment, what matters is what your body knows -- not what your mind knows.

  5. #49
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,095
    I personally believe you are citing a distinction without a difference. I'm not going to debate the semantics of insurance.

    ....and your local postman only carries your mail to your mailbox because he LOVES the people on his route, and only CARES about helping people get their eagerly-awaited mail from far-flung friends and family. If someone provides a service or product out of their own wealth, then they are doing it because they want to help others. If they take a salary or ownership (stock) in the operation, they are doing it for money. They can enjoy their work, and even have altruistic feelings about their paid endeavors. That's good. I am in no position to malign another person's intent.

    I am NOT an #OccupyWhatever loon. I like earning money. But to deny that's my motivation is preposterous.
    jem102 likes this.

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    East TN
    Posts
    1,019
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Dear Mr Hayes,

    Thank you for taking the time to post this very positive letter, and getting your coworkers to post in this thread. Diversity of opinion is healthy and illuminating. Please allow me to clarify my remarks:

    My statements are not the result of any "wrath" on my part. I will avoid being pedantic by posting the definition of the word. I would suggest you look it up as I don't think it means what you think it means.

    Also, you end by requesting that I don't "hate" you. I do not have time for "hate" - a wasted emotion in my book. I simply find your ersatz insurance program not worth the investment. I know it's very "hip" for you young people to decry any opinions with which you disagree as "hate", but I can happily assure you my humble, personal opinion of your services does not even begin to apprach any level of "hate". Please rest assured I hate neither you personally nor the services you offer. If 4500 people want to pay you for this peace of mind service and you can make a living from it, that's no issue for me.

    Your comparison to AAA seems apt, except for the fact I truly receive up-front services for my payment. They will come and tow/repair my car even if I was stupid enough to not watch my fuel gauge, or I drove recklessly. They provide a known insurance product, and yes, they are an insurance company.

    I would also like to point out as you boast of your "2 for 2" record of success over several years, that you and your board have the sweet luxury of picking and choosing whom to support with your program. I'll bet even a half-wit like me could maintain a solid record of success if I had the freedom to support only high-profile cases with a near certainty of winning. If ACLDN has a run on that $150K for some reason based on numerous members requiring your support, you could simply refuse to take any more cases until you have built your reserves back up. It's an actuarial game like insurance, except the ACLDN doesn't have to take any risks. I'd hate to be a paid-up member who needed your services during a peak time, and find myself denied because the board deemed my case "unworthy".Good luck with your company.

    MadMac
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I personally believe you are citing a distinction without a difference. I'm not going to debate the semantics of insurance.

    ....and your local postman only carries your mail to your mailbox because he LOVES the people on his route, and only CARES about helping people get their eagerly-awaited mail from far-flung friends and family. If someone provides a service or product out of their own wealth, then they are doing it because they want to help others. If they take a salary or ownership (stock) in the operation, they are doing it for money. They can enjoy their work, and even have altruistic feelings about their paid endeavors. That's good. I am in no position to malign another person's intent.

    I am NOT an #OccupyWhatever loon. I like earning money. But to deny that's my motivation is preposterous.
    Are you not going to buy into the mystics crying foul with their over the top "hate" smoke screen? Being quite sever in your rational thought process aren't you.

    Are you saying that an A is actually an A? Ah, you are one of those traders...giving value (your money) for value (a real non conditional service) and fully expectant the provider will deliver.

    WHAT...you are not going to practice self immolation for the sake of brother love? So, you are proud of the fact you work hard for your money and use it to work for YOU.

    The only thing I can say to you sir is WELL DONE!

    To the rest don't be disingenuous with emotional "it's for the love of my brother/sister CCW".
    If that's the case I'm going to start an insurance, oh excuse me, "up front reimbursement" for medical expenses incurred if your favorite brand of ammo doesn't go BANG and the BG gets a blade into you. How about FTF/FTE "up front reimbursement" if medical attention results from a failure to go BANG?
    I mean really...which shell is the pea under?
    Who is John Galt?

    Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us...

  7. #51
    Member Array killingjoke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    san tan valley,az
    Posts
    41
    Won't renew my membership.
    RugerMak likes this.

  8. #52
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,095
    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Hayes View Post
    MadMac... Not sure what we did to earn your wrath, but whatever we did, I am truly sorry. When I started ACLDN, it was with the intent to gather a few thousand armed citizens together under our banner, who understand the legal problems one can run into if they use a gun for self-defense, and with strength comes numbers.
    Mr Hayes,

    I'll assume you meant to type "with numbers comes strength", but understanding the goals of your organization, perhaps it is I who didn't get it right. :)

  9. #53
    Senior Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Orlando,Fl
    Posts
    659
    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    uscca is a scam imho
    agreed!!!.
    jem102 likes this.

  10. #54
    Member Array Brademan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    150
    One thing I've learned in a life not calm, is that when a mind is made up, it's pretty hard to change it. So be it.

    However, in the interest of accuracy, let me assure MadMac (and anyone else who may care, though I doubt that there are many) that no one caused me to be here except my own desire to check out and be a part of another gun-friendly forum. I didn't even know that Marty was a member here when I joined.

    Second, for many people, there is a confusion between the USCCA and ACLDN, simply because places like this thread has posts referencing both. We are two completely different firms, with two completely different products. Responsible folks will do their own research and choose what sort of protective product they want for themselves (or none, if that is their choice) and that's just the way it should be. It generally has nothing to do with chronological age, but, just for the record, I'm one who has been around long enough to have legally carried in my home state for 40 years.

    I thank one and all for their questions or comments, whether you agree with me or not.
    RugerMak likes this.
    Brademan
    Special Projects manager - ACLDN

    American Militia - charter member, NRA Life/Benefactor member
    LEAA Field Rep, Aikidoka, motorcyclist, plain speaker, straight shooter
    My other nickname is "3-Knife"

  11. #55
    Member Array TBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    N. Virginia
    Posts
    204
    Thanks for stopping by, Marty. I've been a member of ALCDN for several years and appreciate your and your team's efforts. I knew what I would get before I joined. I receive exactly one email per month notifying me that the monthly newsletter is available on their site and that's it. The newsletters always have interesting information for the general benefit of the membership - no "end of the world" appeals for money. Indeed, I have received exactly what was promised. That's how I prefer to do business.

    For the record, I don't work for ALCDN, nor have I personally met nor talked to Marty or anyone else in ALCDN. They didn't even feed my chipmunks.

    As for USCCA, I signed up for the free newsletter a while back and received multiple spam messages per day immediately thereafter from Tim. The tone become more desperate and shrill until I cried uncle and unsubscribed. To their credit, the emails stopped after I unsubscribed. No magazine or forum is worth the influx of spam or the tone of it. Pay for an insurance scam to join USCCA? No thanks. If the civilization is really ending, I need more ammo, not insurance.
    Brademan, RugerMak and Fitch like this.
    "To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them"
    - George Mason, American Statesman (1725-92)

  12. #56
    Member Array Marty Hayes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    50
    Madmac:

    To address some of your comments:

    We have only had one request for assistance from an ACLDN member, which we satisfied. We had a request for our involvement with the Hickey case through a member, and we decided to help pro-bono, because Larry was getting a raw deal, and he was an instructor for an affliated school, James' Yeagers Tactical Response. We are 2 for 2 because we have worked on 2 cases with satisfactory outcomes, not because we have screened out any bad cases.

    You are right, I meant with numbers comes strength. I typed that after a very long day and jet lag.

    I am glad you don't hate us.
    RugerMak, T76 and CCBob like this.
    Marty Hayes, President
    Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org

  13. #57
    New Member Array trlhrv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Richardson,Tx
    Posts
    8
    I also will let my USCCA membership expire soon. The Defense Shield requirement is bad enough but when Tim started pushing his brother's Financial Advise service by using scare tactics of a financial meltdown, that was the last straw. He came back later and apologized due to the negative responses but it shows his lack of sincere concern for members.
    RugerMak likes this.

  14. #58
    Member Array rdpG19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    341
    I'm a Gold member of USCCA and will let my membership expire, I managed to get off the marketing email list and now don't get anything from them, not even the magazine!
    Its a SCAM..

    From what I've read and researched about ACLDN it seems like they offer what the armed citizen needs, 5-10 grand up front for a lawyer if needed. Plus the price is more affordable. If you are checking out ACLDN sign up for their free pamplet "What every gun owner needs to know about Self-Defense Law" I just got done reading it and it really brought to my attention some things I never thought about. It wasn't a big sales pitch, just facts!
    RugerMak likes this.
    US Navy Veteren
    Ruger SP101 357 3" Barrel
    Taurus 65 357 Mag
    Glock 19 Gen3
    Walther PK 380
    www.guntoters.com

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Naugatuck, CT
    Posts
    2,406
    Quote Originally Posted by rdpG19 View Post

    From what I've read and researched about ACLDN it seems like they offer what the armed citizen needs, 5-10 grand up front for a lawyer if needed.
    I would be interested if they supplied the money because I say I need an attorney, not because they decide I do.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  16. #60
    Member Array TBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    N. Virginia
    Posts
    204
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    I would be interested if they supplied the money because I say I need an attorney, not because they decide I do.
    The ACLDN website is very clear about how the system works.
    RugerMak likes this.
    "To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them"
    - George Mason, American Statesman (1725-92)

Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

is the uscca legit
,

is uscca legit

,

is uscca legitimate

,
tim schmidt uscca
,

uscca

,
uscca defense shield
,
uscca forums
,
uscca insurance
,

uscca review

,

uscca review scam

,

uscca reviews

,

uscca scam

Click on a term to search for related topics.