This is a discussion on "No Guns Allowed" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by noway2 Interesting perspective and one that I suspect really hit it on the head. Indeed, the best place to focus your efforts ...
Not to turn this into a debate but all save one stated they would immediately ask an open carry to depart with no compunction about calling the police and pressing criminal trespass charges. They felt they would need to do this to make clear to the other patrons "I" will control this. Unfortunately in my state the signs do carry the weight of law so you can't really push it as is.
Last edited by jem102; November 5th, 2011 at 03:33 PM. Reason: spelling
Who is John Galt?
Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us...
When political power is up for grabs, personal liberty is usually one of the first casualties…
The owner of that store should read up on MN law. The law is very specific on the verbage, sign size and even colors used. He sign is not valid at all.
We rarely see no gun signs in CO. At first there a few. Most malls have some kind of weapons ban in there rules, but they neer post any signs. Signs have no weight of law in CO. Thet are the same as no shirt no service signs. We have seen a few taken down. Tuesday Morning removed all theirs. I only know of one Costco that actually has a sign. I know the CEO is aanti-gun, but he likes money too well.
You should have told him they got the wrong signs. They heed the "Don't shoot employees" sign. Or maybe "No armed robberies."
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
For me the only difference between a store that post a sign like that, and one that doesn't would be. If something goes down inside the one that has the sign, they'll most likely be on their own as far as I'm concerned. Now that's not to say that I'd react any differently in the store that does not have the sign, but during the evaluation process on whether to act or not, I'm sure it'll cross my mind.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson
The only other sign that carries force of law is a "red" 51% sign. That is for businesses that get more than 51% of alcohol sales for onsite consumption.
You both have "rights". Respect theirs just as you wish them to respect yours. You're no better than they are. (and yes, I carry)
In NC the signs do hold weight, and they are not required to adhere to any size or info requirements, other than being visible. Once inside you have already commited tresspass. I too believe the owner has the right to post them on his property, and I read them all to say "Your money is not welcome here. Please spend it elsewhere". I abide by those wishes.
" In theory, reality and theory are the same. In reality, they are not."
GLOCK G23, KAHR CW9, RUGER LCP, TAURUS PT92, TAURUS 689, MOSSY 500
When a person operates a business open to the public they, by that very fact, give up certain property rights, try to open a business and not provide wheelchair ramps, handicapped parking spaces, handicapped bathrooms....... Could a business get away with posting a sign that said "NO (RACIAL GROUP OF YOUR CHOICE)" or "NO LONG HAIR"...... If you are open to the public, then YOU ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC...just one man's opinion.
Here is just a small section of the index for an ADA brochure, tell me about "property rights"
4.1 Minimum Requirements
4.2 Space Allowance and Reach Ranges
4.3 Accessible Route
4.4 Protruding Objects
4.5 Ground and Floor Surfaces
4.6 Parking and Passenger Loading Zones
4.7 Curb Ramps
4.11 Platform Lifts (Wheelchair Lifts)
4.15 Drinking Fountains and Water Coolers
4.16 Water Closets
4.17 Toilet Stalls
4.19 Lavatories and Mirrors
4.21 Shower Stalls
4.22 Toilet Rooms
4.23 Bathrooms, Bathing Facilities, and Shower Rooms
4.26 Handrails, Grab Bars, and Tub and Shower Seats
4.27 Controls and Operating Mechanisms
4.29 Detectable Warnings
4.32 Fixed or Built-in Seating and Tables
4.33 Assembly Areas
4.34 Automated Teller Machines
4.35 Dressing and Fitting Rooms
4.36 Saunas and Steam Rooms
Here is a (serious) question regarding this topic. When you are carrying and decide to leave it in your vehicle do you take any 'special' action when putting it back in your holster or do you leave it where ever you put it in your car? I ask because yesterday I stopped at the ABC store, which is posted. Before going in, I took placed the Glock I was carrying in a closed console in my truck. I was in and out of the store in minutes. When I came out, I took it out of the console, put it back in the IWB holster, got in my truck and drove off. I haven't had a lot of practice yet getting it in and out of the holster seeing as this is my first carry gun and I just bought it last week. I wasn't sure if I would be able to get it back in from a seated position, but this is something to check into.
Of course the whole leave it in your vehicle thing gets me to thinking about a couple of problems: 1 - someone notices what your doing and performs a vehicle theft while your in the store. 2 - Someone notices what you are doing and freaks out over an MWAG. 3 - The adage about NDs occurring from unnecessary handling. The obvious answer to all three is that it would have been best and safest thing for it to remain in it's holster, both for me and for the store clerks. The whole point to their stupid sign is for them to falsely feel safer when in fact it is doing the exact opposite.