My answer, - Page 2

My answer,

This is a discussion on My answer, within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The cold hard truth is that anti-gunners DO reap the silent benefits of gun ownership in any area where firearms are in the hands and ...

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  1. #16
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    Array QKShooter's Avatar
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    The cold hard truth is that anti-gunners DO reap the silent benefits of gun ownership in any area where firearms are in the hands and homes of responsible gun owning citizens.

    That is because the criminal element has no way to differentiate between individuals and households "with & without" & "for and against" firearms.

    Criminals are then much more cautious/hesitant than if the entire population is defenseless with regard to deadly force.
    wmhawth, helderberg and ep1953 like this.


  2. #17
    Member Array jerry12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    I have a co-worker that does not own a gun (he had one once and his wife freaked out screaming and he had to get rid of it), but he also appreciates the reality that thanks to people like us who do own guns, the bad guys don't know which house is armed or not and it is to some degree a deterent.
    Get rid of the wife and keep the gun.
    Anubis, Majorlk and ep1953 like this.
    Jerry

    NRA Life Member

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Appreciate your very reasoned reply. Among things I do that I have discussed before on previous threads are: 1. I lock my bedroom door and keep a good door stopper under the door. 2. I have my cell phone for 911 3. I have my remote car opener with the emergency button that I would activate--now I have noise and light in the garage--easier for LEO to know which house IF they should arrive in time 4. I have a 12g pump nearby and a location in bedroom that hides me but not the door. If someone has the misfortune to find out what is behind that locked door, they will be very disappointed ONLY ONCE. My misgivings will be that a door frame needs fixing and the carpet may need replacing 5. I have a 20 round FN 5.7x28 semi auto behind my bed for whatever. I WILL NOT LEAVE THE BEDROOM--PERIOD. Just my wife and I and I can understand the problem with children or others in different parts of house. I consider myself fortunate as to how and where I live for 70 years and there is always a "what if", but in 70 years it has never happened. I consider situational awareness numero uno, I do not go where I have a misgiving about the location and am always looking--still people talk "what if"---what if also can be said about a lightening strike on my head but I do go outside when it is raining. I do not carry 24/7, I carry bear spray in my car as a potent alternate for road rage.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Helderberg,

    I sure understand your frustration.

    You make an interesting point when you suggest they post a sign saying they are disarmed. One I'd not thought of, until your point "made it click."

    Anti's (for the most part) deal with the "impracticals," an extension of their emotional response. They don't often actively DO anything about it (whatever it is they're against). They just tell you how they feel about it, and rely on others (like the Brady Bunch)to DO things about it.

    They may support the "professional doers" with a check now and then. But, they themselves probably don't DO much. Even something like writing their representatives.

    I'm sure that the Brady Bunch and groups like it have email alerts and action alerts as the NRA and GOA and our organizations do. I just don't think the constituency of the anti group acts on those alerts like we do...

    So, in essence, asking them to STAND for their belief is something they cannot do. They would likely not have pledged their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor to stop the tyranny of the King...

    But, they'd have told you they were "...All for independence! Absolutely! "Muster? Oh no, I couldn't DO THAT... I have a different kind of "bridge club." But you have a good time, okay? And give my regards to ..."
    Majorlk likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Well, we all see how well prohibition worked, just sayin.....

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Helderberg,

    I sure understand your frustration.

    You make an interesting point when you suggest they post a sign saying they are disarmed. One I'd not thought of, until your point "made it click."

    Anti's (for the most part) deal with the "impracticals," an extension of their emotional response. They don't often actively DO anything about it (whatever it is they're against). They just tell you how they feel about it, and rely on others (like the Brady Bunch)to DO things about it.

    They may support the "professional doers" with a check now and then. But, they themselves probably don't DO much. Even something like writing their representatives.

    I'm sure that the Brady Bunch and groups like it have email alerts and action alerts as the NRA and GOA and our organizations do. I just don't think the constituency of the anti group acts on those alerts like we do...

    So, in essence, asking them to STAND for their belief is something they cannot do. They would likely not have pledged their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor to stop the tyranny of the King...

    But, they'd have told you they were "...All for independence! Absolutely! "Muster? Oh no, I couldn't DO THAT... I have a different kind of "bridge club." But you have a good time, okay? And give my regards to ..."
    Well Said!
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    The cold hard truth is that anti-gunners DO reap the silent benefits of gun ownership in any area where firearms are in the hands and homes of responsible gun owning citizens.

    That is because the criminal element has no way to differentiate between individuals and households "with & without" & "for and against" firearms.

    Criminals are then much more cautious/hesitant than if the entire population is defenseless with regard to deadly force.
    I hadn't actually considered that but it's no doubt true. Makes sense.

  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    In Orwell's 1984, he discussed that the TV may be watching you, but then it may not too. The distinction was important as compared to knowing that you were always being watched or your never being watched. In either of the latter two cases, due to the psychology of the situation, maximum compliance was achieved when you didn't know if you were being watched or not. The same could be said about criminals facing the possibility that home owners have guns. Knowing that houses are either fully armed or defenseless will alter their behavior; in the first case they will alter their tactics and in the second they will know they have an easier target. By knowing that the occupants MAY be armed or knowing the place may be actively alarmed, it creates a seed of doubt and the missing aspects are then filled in by their own fears of what could go wrong.

  9. #24
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    I was having a conversation last night with someone I love but she is a total anti-gun woman. After we finished the phone call it struck me, "If I am wrong I have gained a skill of being able to punch holes in paper at 15-20 yards. If She is wrong her family could be killed". I wish I could get through to her but on these matters she has a closed mind. I have known her my entire life and a better person you could not find. Not bigoted or judgmental on any level. Willing to discuss anything with an open mind but guns, I believe, they scare her to death. All she sees is the danger and not the benefits. I am at my wits end how to open her eyes to the possible reality for her decision.
    Be safe, Frank.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Frank,

    The best I have been able to do is to convince an anti that guns are inanimate objects that do nothing without outside influence.

    And, that if she were able to stop time in the middle of a brutal attack (on someone else) who would die if she did not act, she actually would "act" (and this is where the stopping time comes into play). She would not pull the trigger herself, but because of this "ability to stop time," she could put a gun in the hand of the victim, and point it for the victim, and put the victim's trigger on the finger (so that all the victim had to do was pull the trigger and the assailant would die, guaranteed), and then resume time. She would do that for the victim. If she were the victim, in the exact same scenario, she said she might not pull the trigger!

    This is an emotional thing, Frank. Sometimes it is so deeply rooted that it truly cannot be pried loose. Sometimes the only thing that will change the mind of an anti is a personal trigger that is a shock to their system (literally). And I do know of one previous anti that went from being very similar to the lady above, to the complete opposite (as far as function with guns in self defense only) but still HATES the concept, HATES that they were "MADE" to be this way. But still practices, takes SD (H2H and weapons) classes, and wishes they didn't have to. The 180 was due to such a shock, lost an extended family *member to rape/murder.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Hey Frank, Let me be Frank. (couldnt help it.) The antis view is very emotional. There points and views are, if there are no guns, then no gun crimes, accidents or anything else gun related would happen. In a perfect would that would be great.

    In the world we live in, it just wont work. Folks that look at this from a logical position understand this. The emotional, knee jerk anti does not.
    True, if all guns were eliminated there would be no gun crime or accidents. There would still be crime. Rape, robbery, murder would all continue. The weak would have little or no defense against the large and powerful men (and women?) who would commit these crimes. In addition, the elimination of all guns would not eliminate all weapons that a criminal would use. I'm sure I don't have to list them here.

    So in my opinion if the anti gun folks want to go around in a state of blissful ignorance that is their choice. But when they try to tell me I should do the same they're barking up the wrong tree.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helderberg View Post
    I could not agree more with you. I have told my wife and children, when they were still living at home, that I will not go looking for a person that has broken into our home if he stays away from us. By this I mean, in our home, if we are upstairs and they are down, tell them I am armed and do not come upstairs. I have called the police so leave now or not but do not come up the stairs. This is but one circumstance but the logic applies to all. I am not going to go looking for something bad but I will protect myself from it. Thanks for the insightful replies people.
    Frank.
    I'm not going to verbally engage anyone that has broken into my house. I will stay behind my door and quietly call 911, while I remain ready as needed. Telling a POS that has broken in that you have called the police and are armed could cause him to react badly. For example, he could decide to torch the place and then get out. Of course this is only one possible bad outcome. So for me, the first sound the creep will hear is BOOM when and if I see him.
    Anubis likes this.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    True, if all guns were eliminated there would be no gun crime or accidents. There would still be crime. Rape, robbery, murder would all continue. The weak would have little or no defense against the large and powerful men (and women?) who would commit these crimes. In addition, the elimination of all guns would not eliminate all weapons that a criminal would use. I'm sure I don't have to list them here.

    So in my opinion if the anti gun folks want to go around in a state of blissful ignorance that is their choice. But when they try to tell me I should do the same they're barking up the wrong tree.
    Long, l o n g, before there were guns, the first FBI UCR1 posted a murder rate of 1 in 4. It probably didn't improve much over the years until recently.



    1 First Biblical Incident Uniform Crime Report: Genesis 4:8
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array Chief1297's Avatar
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    Arguing with an anti is like teaching my dog to speak proper English. I end up frustrated and my dog gets completely aggravated. I no longer do it. Both the dog and I are happier for it.
    helderberg likes this.
    The 1911 is an antiquated weapons system but then again, so am I.
    Retired SF(SP) CMSgt 1979-2005

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