Chicago CCW

This is a discussion on Chicago CCW within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; [QUOTE] Originally Posted by archer51 While I agree the group and especially the punk who threw the punch are nothing but the lowest form of ...

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  1. #16
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    While I agree the group and especially the punk who threw the punch are nothing but the lowest form of scum in the cesspool of Chicago, I don't see where having a gun would have had any effect on what happened. There was no justification ever shown for the older gentleman to draw a weapon, until after he was blindsided. By then it was too late for him.
    The older gentlemen used poor judgement in allowing the perp to engage him. He had time to backup and present his weapon. He should have kept his eyes on them as well.

    His first mistake was verbal engagement, his second was taking his eye off of them. With a weapon, he could have pulled before he was hit. I would have had mine in hand when the perp got halfway to me.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutrodoc View Post

    It would be nice if the victim knew to not stand so close to a potential attacker and to not have his hands by his sides (I think his left hand was in his pocket). You can have your hands in a defensive position without it looking like you want to fight. He could have stood further away and had his hands up in front of him saying, "I don't want any trouble. Please leave me alone". This would have attracted the attention of others, demonstrated that he was not being aggressive, was trying to avoid the situation, and put him into a position to deflect or block the punch if it still happened.

    You are so right. It was the elderly man's fault.

    Ultimately on some level, he deserved it because he failed to adequately show enough self defense tactics and Preclusion besides his Age and lack of walking dexterity.

    Then, he - as an 75+ year old man - could have easily and deftly "deflected" the athletic 30yr old's punch and done all the things you say in your last sentence above to defend a suckerpunch.

    Nice magical thinking. There was nothing the perp did that really stood out before he did it. HINDSIGHT is 20/20. If the elderly man backed up, a determined perp just closes distance and smashes him straight in the face rather than a roundhouse. The perp INTENTIONALLY attacked the weakest of the weak. There was no one to help the elderly man except the woman that came to his aid AFTERWARD. No MAN stepped up even AFTER he was flat on the ground so who would have stepped up before. What video were you watching? The elderly cannot, without leverage tools and LOTS of efficient Operantly conditioned training (and even then), defend themselves from a determined, athletic perp 40-50 years younger in a situation like that. He shouldn't go outside if I really extrapolate your argument.

    Note, I support your right to express your different opinion.

    As far as that being a shooting situation, generally, I agree with you. Chicago is a non-starter and a self defense JOKE of a city (edged tool use notwhithstanding). Elsewhere, know the law in your own State and act accordingly.

    It was over instantaneously and he didn't attack the elderly man on the ground or move with obvious intent to attack him on the ground. So it was "over." If he began working the elderly man on the ground when he was unconscious, I argue under Texas law....assault (odds high of felony Aggravated with age disparity, suckerpunch, force of blow, hitting head on ground) already occurred and he was now inflicting additional grave bodily harm to an unconscious elderly individual. Neutralize. Immediately. Near/Contact shots for backstop concerns. Innocent bystanders deserve the benefit of up close and personal reduction of their risk.

    But that didnt happen.

    I argue that the social climate in Texas would no bill if you shot Perp anyways due to the viciousness, age, moral turpitude etc, but that is my opinion living here, reading what has been no billed before and stating my opinion. Legally, I would avoid shooting perp here in Texas as the situation presents on video.

    Does your state law allow you to make a citizens detention and use a lethal tool if the perp attempts to get away from a brutal assault (possibly/likely Aggravated). If you tell him to "Freeze," does Suckerpunch Perp then target you which is now a new use of (self defense) force situation. Do you draw to protect yourself? Do you draw and shoot if he uses force to close distance and menaces you -- with his prior action on the elderly man as your justification to use lethal force to protect yourself? Do the others jump in because this now is becoming a groupthink monkeydance beatdown or do they have a "come to Jesus moment" and stand down when you draw? Lots going on legally and tactically. Be Legal and Stay out front of that OODA loop.
    Deuce130 likes this.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
    - Frederic Bastiat

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    While I agree the group and especially the punk who threw the punch are nothing but the lowest form of scum in the cesspool of Chicago, I don't see where having a gun would have had any effect on what happened. There was no justification ever shown for the older gentleman to draw a weapon, until after he was blindsided. By then it was too late for him.

    If one of the other people on the platform had been armed, when and how would they be allowed to respond with lethal force? Unfortunately the when would not be until after the blow had been landed. While someone might have suspected something was going to happen, you can't act on suspicion. Since it was a 1 blow and get on the subway, what would an armed citizen be allowed to do? Citizens arrest....you could try it, but what do you do when they laugh at you? There would not be any justification in firing on them. At best your standing there with a gun in hand while they pile onto the subway and leave. Worst case an all out gunfight erupts.

    As has been said on this board many times, by many people. A gun is not the answer to every situation.
    I agree 100%
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

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    I agree with you...mostly. No the perp doesnt deserve to die of lead poisoning, but you'll be surprised what he could have lived through.

    I hope they find that scum and sentence him to 3- 3minute rounds with a world class mma fighter. That would be justice IMO

    And the guy who filmed it on his camera phone...just 2 rounds for him will do.

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