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revolver vs semi auto fully loaded

6K views 44 replies 28 participants last post by  bnw 
#1 ·
Why is it so many people have no problem carrying a revolver with a full cylinder as it is intended but the same people will not carry a chambered semi automatic. Its the same method of firing, pull trigger. Its the same with no safeties, it just happens to be loaded in a different manner and in most cases semi autos have more rounds on tap. Why is the semi automatic so much more "dangerous" to these people than a semi auto like a Glock or an XD. I don't get it, carrying a revolver loaded is the same as carrying a semi auto loaded, dont pull the trigger it wont go off.
 
#24 ·
This; and they have seen semi-autos with an external safety and so the idea of carrrying a Glock, Kahr, etc with one in the chamber and no "safety" scares the bee-jeezxus out of them. Boils down to training, confidence, and understanding how to carry. (And keeping your booger hook of the trigger).
 
#7 ·
+1, ntkb nailed it.
 
#10 ·
Because a slide would hurt like a bugger if it went off in a Smartcarry. :)

I know my 642 J-Frame has a hard trigger pull, which is one reason I like it for use in the Smartcarry.

I haven't really read much evidence that backs up your claim however, in general the ones who fear carrying with one in the chamber fear it regardless and quite honestly probably don't even own a revolver.
 
#14 ·
Yeah I know alot of revolvers are 12# thats like a NY Glock. They made it like that for safety when they went form revolvers to Glock.For safety because they fear ND. But some say a recommended trigger is 4-6lbs? I was just curious if there was a ceratain spec. But seems some revolvers are no safer that semi auto? It's all training.
 
#16 ·
I do believe some guns are safer than others.

Plenty of discussions here on that, so I'll leave it be.
I belive it's training. But if your a newbie I would look at a Sprinfield XD. Because it has a grip safety. Grip safety and trigger safety in the Xd. I would rather have that then a revolvor for CCW. Just because of round count and they come in smaller sizes.
Some ppl don't like plastic guns but you can't bet the weight, round count and smaller size. Also price. Some of my 1911 when I tell ppl what I paid they think I'm crazy :). I like my revolver. The 4-6" barrled SW are very nice.
 
#17 ·
Well, it can be the same, but if the semi-auto is single action like a 1911 it is NOT like carrying a revolver. For the DA or DA/SA or many striker-fired semis: you're right, makes no sense. Only thing I can think of is trigger pull weight is usually greater with a revolver than a semi-auto DA or the others. Maybe that? Dunno....
 
#22 ·
one thing I didn't see mentioned; A revolver in a case would have the additional friction of the cylinder requiring to revolve. Inserting or removing the additional friction applies once the cylinder makes contact with case.

Some might feel safer knowing that.
 
#23 ·
It is the same illogical thinking and misunderstanding of people who think carrying a 1911 cocked and locked (which has both a thumb safety and grip safety) is much more dangerous than carrying a single action striker fired semi-auto with no external safeties. Once you understand the internal and external workings of the 1911, you can easily come to the conclusion that the 1911 cocked and locked is safer...but there's something psychological about people seeing an external hammer cocked. It is more mental and emotional than rational.
 
#25 ·
Lack of knowledge and experience ! I had a woman come into the shop and say the same thing. I explained how a semi auto works and showed her and she was at ease.
Sometimes there's people who say the opposite, that a semi is safer because it has a safety {The ones that do}. Then I explain about the difference in trigger pull and they are set at ease. The number one rule, keep your finger off the trigger if you don't want to shoot ! This goes for any gun be it revolver, semi-auto, rifle, or shotgun !
 
#26 ·
Have to throw in my one cent worth here (accounting for devaluation of the two-cents I normally offer).

With a pocket-carried or holster carried revolver there's more resistance to inadvertantly pulling the trigger--trigger pull weight higher, external resistance on the cylinder, external resistance on the hammer, etc. My Glock, on the other hand, has only the "Safe Action" trigger, which is hardly a safety at all. Anything that might slip into the trigger guard--pocketknife, shirt tail, edge of the holster, etc., will (and does) easily defeat the Safe Action trigger and can more easily (and will) cause an inadvertant discharge.

Is the Glock "unsafe"? No. Is it less safe? I say yes. Any pistol relying solely on a trigger-mounted safety is more subseptible to an inadvertant discharge that something with an external safety. Even the touted 1911 with both grip and external safety is easily defeated. If reholstering, the grip safety is disengaged by design, it's in your grip--one down oand one to go. The external safety can be inadvertantly disengaged (or forgotten in the heat of stress), and we're back to relying on the safety between our ears--keep the finger (and foreign objects) off the trigger.

It comes down to being extra careful with all guns all the time, regardless of make, model, or style. If an "empty" gun can fire, surely a loaded one will.
 
#30 ·
The Military advises the M-9 be carried with a round in the chamber, hammer down and the safety off. The reasoning is it's a double action and thus no different than a double action revolver.
 
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#31 ·
Some may think...

Revolvers are in a normal "relaxed" state... No spring tension on the hammer... which is already forward and uncocked. Nothing can happen with the gun until the hammer is pulled back either by DA trigger or pulled back manually. Hard to imagine that happening unintentionally.

Semi-autos, on the other hand, when they have one in the chamber are in a cocked state. Racking the slide to chamber a round, cocks it. The hammer/striker is now spring-loaded, under tension and ready to slam into the firing pin and blast off a round. So one could imagine a part failure allowing the hammer to drop, or an accidental snag pulling a light SA trigger. They are just too "ready" to go blammo.

Some truth... some unfounded fear

:beerchug:
 
#35 ·
Semi-autos, on the other hand, when they have one in the chamber are in a cocked state.

...

Some truth... some unfounded fear

:beerchug:
Only some semi-autos. An HK P7M8 has it striker in the completely relaxed position (no spring tension). The striker is cocked by the action of squeezing the grip of the pistol. Thus the term "squeeze cocker". The front grip panel is spring loaded so the pistol instantly decocks itself if it is dropped or otherwise leaves the shooter's hand.

Thus the popularity of the P7 and P7M8 for IWBA carry with the tube pointing at one's "junk". Absolutely zero possibility of an accidental discharge even if the trigger somehow gets pulled. (Pulling the trigger without squeezing and holding the grip's front panel does absolutely nothing.)

A Glock is in a partially cocked state, with some tension on the striker's spring but the Glock is not ready to fire. The trigger has to be drawn back to complete the tensioning of the striker's spring and to disengage the internal safety blocking the striker's travel.

A Model 70 Model 1911 is all ready to go, with the safety blocking the trigger but not the hammer. A Model 80 1911 adds a hammer block.
 
#32 ·
In the immortal words of Jerry Seinfeld "who are these people?"

I wasn't able to read all the comments so I don't know if this was addressed, but where was this information taken from? Was there a survey done?
Maybe the people that don't carry a round in the chamber with an automatic also keep one less round in the revolver. Back in the 80s I had a friend who had a large revolver, I don't remember what it was all I know it was pretty substantial, who always kept a bullet removed so that the hammer was over an empty chamber. He told me he did not want it to go off accidentally as in if you dropped it. I don't know what he would have done if he had an automatic.

Safeties have come a long way since then, both for revolvers and automatics or should I say semi-automatics in keeping with this thread
 
#34 ·
Historical Note: The empty chamber under the hammer for old single-action revolvers was a standard technique to avoid accidental discharges. The old single-action revolvers would fire a cartridge if the protruding hammer was snagged (on a branch, for example), lifted part way up but not far enough to begin to rotate the cylinder, and then released. You will find reference to the "Five Beans" rule, meaning to put only five rounds into a 6-chamber cylinder, leaving the chamber under the single-revolver's hammer empty.

Today we have transfer bars in Ruger revolvers and a hammer block in S&W J-frames (for example) to prevent a revolver from any possibility of firing if the hammer is lifted part way and then released. Older S&W revolvers had a protruding nipple on the hammer's face to strike the firing pin. Today's S&W revolvers have a flat hammer face and a firing pin mounted in the frame, with a hammer block bar inside the mechanism to prevent the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is being held to the rear.
 
#36 ·
30 years ago when I first started carrying a revolver I was afraid to carry with a round in the chamber in case I dropped it. I did not have a firing pin block. Now with modern revolvers there is more confidence that there will not be ND if dropped. I also like the grip safety on my XD and will not carry a Glock.
 
#37 ·
I am primarily a revolver person, 642 in pocket holster. But I also carry a Glock G23 on occasion in an IWB holster. The Glock always has one in the chamber (and a NY#1 trigger) so where did you get this idea that revolver people are afraid to carry with one in the pipe? Most of the people on this and other forums that seem overly caustious are newbie semiauto folks not wheelgunners.
 
#40 ·
Yeah, they're the ones I meet; new semi-auto shooters- certainly not revolver shooters. We always have one in the pipe with no manual safety lever (the manual safety is the trigger spring). Why would we be afraid of no manual safety - (by the way, there is one heck of a difference between "no safety" and "no MANUAL safety LEVER". They are not synonymous.)
 
#39 ·
Ppl just need to practic that all. I can draw and draw and not once grab the trigger. Putting the gun back in you can take your time and make sure nothings in the way.Thats all it takes. If you own a gun learn how to use it and shoot it. And use good equipment like a holster and cleaning supplies .Otherwise it should just remain homedefence not carry imo
 
#41 ·
I did a quick analysis of trigger pulls using a Lyman electronic trigger pull scale (will only read pull weights less than 12 lbs.) on several of my firearms. Results are as follows:

1. Smith & Wesson M&P 45 c, after an Apex Tactical Hard Sear install, and an Apex Ultimate Striker Block for M&P Pistols, both available on ApexTactical.com..... Average pull weight 3 lbs., 13oz. It is AWESOME!
2. Smith Wesson M&P 340, factory trigger and springs, no alterations.......unable to generate a reading
3. Smith & Wesson 642, Wolff spring kit, trigger job by yours truly.....Average pull weight 10 lbs. Now smooth, crisp and noticeably lighter than the 340
4. Ruger SP101, Wolff spring kit, trigger job by yours truly.....Average pull weight 8 lbs., 8 oz. Now smooth and silky
 
#43 ·
There are those who have an understanding of the mechanics of there weapon, but IMHO have not pondered the psychological issues that drive there decision to not keep one in the pipe. Intellectually they understand that it won't go bang by itself, but this isn't sufficient to overcome there anxiety. It may not be ignorance or lack of trigger time that drives this.

IMHO, this may speak to the unspoken and unresolved emotional conflict of being responsible for the decision to carry. E.g., I'm a "real" man and real men carry. So they carry, but avoid the spiritual and psychological commitment by keeping the pipe empty. If they keep it empty they can "buy" additional time to make this ultimately final decision. The problem of course is that this "time" may be enough for someone to preempt there unresolved need and kill them.

Let me preface what I'm about to say with this isn't a "macho duck", chest beating statement. When I strap on my pistol the only time I'm going to draw it is when I have committed to destroy the reason I drew it. (other than shoot it at the range or clean it, etc.) It must go bang immediately. The stress of a shoot, don't shoot situation will be challenging enough and if I haven't resolved my spiritual and psychological choices before this I'm a fool…and perhaps a dead one.

One in the pipe is my commitment to this decision and my intimate beliefs. God forbid that I ever know if this is true.

2 cents
 
#44 ·
Olduser--thems a lot of thought out words you used to arrive at a conclusion--

one i agree with--if, when--a time comes that you NEED the gun, there likely will be an awful lot of things happening in a small space in time;
so many such that time for chambering a round may not be available

otherwise known as 'he who hesitates is toast'
 
#45 ·
I'm relatively new compared to you guys, but have at least four years on my Glock model 22. For me, it's a simple matter of one step versus two steps. Two steps, by definition, is safer than one step in avoiding an accidental discharge. I can trust my weapon to not fire without the trigger being pulled - and i do. But if a round is in the chamber, it's still one step from firing as opposed to two. Personally, I keep mine in a bedside safe at night, but before putting it away, I take the round out of the chamber and then put the magazine back in the gun. If I wake up, it takes two steps to fire. I figure that in a groggy state waking to a noise or something, I want the extra step to make sure I'm good and awake. Also, on the very off chance my kids figure out how to open the safe, they could easily pull a trigger, but it would be harder for them to physically pull the slide to chamber a round. Again, it's safer because of the extra step.

Just so I preempt the discussion going down this path... I do educate my kids on firearm safety and they have a respect for firearms. I figure that's the best way to keep them safe. But, a kid is still a kid and by definition, lacking adult judgement. I want the extra step there.

Also, I have fully and completely come to the awareness that I am prepared to take a life in defense of my family. I'd throw myself in front of a bus to save one of my kids, so I definitely don't have a problem shooting a bad guy that threatens them.
 
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