revolver vs semi auto fully loaded - Page 3

revolver vs semi auto fully loaded

This is a discussion on revolver vs semi auto fully loaded within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Some may think... Revolvers are in a normal "relaxed" state... No spring tension on the hammer... which is already forward and uncocked. Nothing can happen ...

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Thread: revolver vs semi auto fully loaded

  1. #31
    New Member Array ripcuda's Avatar
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    Some may think...

    Revolvers are in a normal "relaxed" state... No spring tension on the hammer... which is already forward and uncocked. Nothing can happen with the gun until the hammer is pulled back either by DA trigger or pulled back manually. Hard to imagine that happening unintentionally.

    Semi-autos, on the other hand, when they have one in the chamber are in a cocked state. Racking the slide to chamber a round, cocks it. The hammer/striker is now spring-loaded, under tension and ready to slam into the firing pin and blast off a round. So one could imagine a part failure allowing the hammer to drop, or an accidental snag pulling a light SA trigger. They are just too "ready" to go blammo.

    Some truth... some unfounded fear

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  2. #32
    Member Array rcsnpr's Avatar
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    In the immortal words of Jerry Seinfeld "who are these people?"

    I wasn't able to read all the comments so I don't know if this was addressed, but where was this information taken from? Was there a survey done?
    Maybe the people that don't carry a round in the chamber with an automatic also keep one less round in the revolver. Back in the 80s I had a friend who had a large revolver, I don't remember what it was all I know it was pretty substantial, who always kept a bullet removed so that the hammer was over an empty chamber. He told me he did not want it to go off accidentally as in if you dropped it. I don't know what he would have done if he had an automatic.

    Safeties have come a long way since then, both for revolvers and automatics or should I say semi-automatics in keeping with this thread

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    Well he was lucky it never went off, if the hammer was over the empty chamber it would cycle to the next round when the trigger was pulled.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array marcclarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Well he was lucky it never went off, if the hammer was over the empty chamber it would cycle to the next round when the trigger was pulled.
    Historical Note: The empty chamber under the hammer for old single-action revolvers was a standard technique to avoid accidental discharges. The old single-action revolvers would fire a cartridge if the protruding hammer was snagged (on a branch, for example), lifted part way up but not far enough to begin to rotate the cylinder, and then released. You will find reference to the "Five Beans" rule, meaning to put only five rounds into a 6-chamber cylinder, leaving the chamber under the single-revolver's hammer empty.

    Today we have transfer bars in Ruger revolvers and a hammer block in S&W J-frames (for example) to prevent a revolver from any possibility of firing if the hammer is lifted part way and then released. Older S&W revolvers had a protruding nipple on the hammer's face to strike the firing pin. Today's S&W revolvers have a flat hammer face and a firing pin mounted in the frame, with a hammer block bar inside the mechanism to prevent the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is being held to the rear.
    Eldon Hickey likes this.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array marcclarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripcuda View Post
    Semi-autos, on the other hand, when they have one in the chamber are in a cocked state.

    ...

    Some truth... some unfounded fear

    Only some semi-autos. An HK P7M8 has it striker in the completely relaxed position (no spring tension). The striker is cocked by the action of squeezing the grip of the pistol. Thus the term "squeeze cocker". The front grip panel is spring loaded so the pistol instantly decocks itself if it is dropped or otherwise leaves the shooter's hand.

    Thus the popularity of the P7 and P7M8 for IWBA carry with the tube pointing at one's "junk". Absolutely zero possibility of an accidental discharge even if the trigger somehow gets pulled. (Pulling the trigger without squeezing and holding the grip's front panel does absolutely nothing.)

    A Glock is in a partially cocked state, with some tension on the striker's spring but the Glock is not ready to fire. The trigger has to be drawn back to complete the tensioning of the striker's spring and to disengage the internal safety blocking the striker's travel.

    A Model 70 Model 1911 is all ready to go, with the safety blocking the trigger but not the hammer. A Model 80 1911 adds a hammer block.

  6. #36
    Member Array true grit's Avatar
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    30 years ago when I first started carrying a revolver I was afraid to carry with a round in the chamber in case I dropped it. I did not have a firing pin block. Now with modern revolvers there is more confidence that there will not be ND if dropped. I also like the grip safety on my XD and will not carry a Glock.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    I am primarily a revolver person, 642 in pocket holster. But I also carry a Glock G23 on occasion in an IWB holster. The Glock always has one in the chamber (and a NY#1 trigger) so where did you get this idea that revolver people are afraid to carry with one in the pipe? Most of the people on this and other forums that seem overly caustious are newbie semiauto folks not wheelgunners.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcclarke View Post

    A Model 70 Model 1911 is all ready to go, with the safety blocking the trigger but not the hammer. A Model 80 1911 adds a hammer block.
    With 1911 cocked and locked safety also blocks the hammer from moving, the model 80 has a firing pin block, not hammer, they all have a hammer lock on the safety, also a half cock notch to stop the hammer if the trigger is not pulled.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array ironmike86's Avatar
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    Ppl just need to practic that all. I can draw and draw and not once grab the trigger. Putting the gun back in you can take your time and make sure nothings in the way.Thats all it takes. If you own a gun learn how to use it and shoot it. And use good equipment like a holster and cleaning supplies .Otherwise it should just remain homedefence not carry imo

  10. #40
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    I am primarily a revolver person, 642 in pocket holster. But I also carry a Glock G23 on occasion in an IWB holster. The Glock always has one in the chamber (and a NY#1 trigger) so where did you get this idea that revolver people are afraid to carry with one in the pipe? Most of the people on this and other forums that seem overly caustious are newbie semiauto folks not wheelgunners.
    Yeah, they're the ones I meet; new semi-auto shooters- certainly not revolver shooters. We always have one in the pipe with no manual safety lever (the manual safety is the trigger spring). Why would we be afraid of no manual safety - (by the way, there is one heck of a difference between "no safety" and "no MANUAL safety LEVER". They are not synonymous.)

  11. #41
    Member Array rlimke's Avatar
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    I did a quick analysis of trigger pulls using a Lyman electronic trigger pull scale (will only read pull weights less than 12 lbs.) on several of my firearms. Results are as follows:

    1. Smith & Wesson M&P 45 c, after an Apex Tactical Hard Sear install, and an Apex Ultimate Striker Block for M&P Pistols, both available on ApexTactical.com..... Average pull weight 3 lbs., 13oz. It is AWESOME!
    2. Smith Wesson M&P 340, factory trigger and springs, no alterations.......unable to generate a reading
    3. Smith & Wesson 642, Wolff spring kit, trigger job by yours truly.....Average pull weight 10 lbs. Now smooth, crisp and noticeably lighter than the 340
    4. Ruger SP101, Wolff spring kit, trigger job by yours truly.....Average pull weight 8 lbs., 8 oz. Now smooth and silky
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcclarke View Post
    A Model 70 Model 1911 is all ready to go, with the safety blocking the trigger but not the hammer. A Model 80 1911 adds a hammer block.
    Quote Originally Posted by ntkb View Post
    With 1911 cocked and locked safety also blocks the hammer from moving, the model 80 has a firing pin block, not hammer, they all have a hammer lock on the safety, also a half cock notch to stop the hammer if the trigger is not pulled.
    Not exactly, the thumb safety on a 1911 blocks the sear from moving, it does not block the hammer, and the grip safety blocks trigger movement.







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  13. #43
    Member Array Olduser's Avatar
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    There are those who have an understanding of the mechanics of there weapon, but IMHO have not pondered the psychological issues that drive there decision to not keep one in the pipe. Intellectually they understand that it won't go bang by itself, but this isn't sufficient to overcome there anxiety. It may not be ignorance or lack of trigger time that drives this.

    IMHO, this may speak to the unspoken and unresolved emotional conflict of being responsible for the decision to carry. E.g., I'm a "real" man and real men carry. So they carry, but avoid the spiritual and psychological commitment by keeping the pipe empty. If they keep it empty they can "buy" additional time to make this ultimately final decision. The problem of course is that this "time" may be enough for someone to preempt there unresolved need and kill them.

    Let me preface what I'm about to say with this isn't a "macho duck", chest beating statement. When I strap on my pistol the only time I'm going to draw it is when I have committed to destroy the reason I drew it. (other than shoot it at the range or clean it, etc.) It must go bang immediately. The stress of a shoot, don't shoot situation will be challenging enough and if I haven't resolved my spiritual and psychological choices before this I'm a fool…and perhaps a dead one.

    One in the pipe is my commitment to this decision and my intimate beliefs. God forbid that I ever know if this is true.

    2 cents
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  14. #44
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Olduser--thems a lot of thought out words you used to arrive at a conclusion--

    one i agree with--if, when--a time comes that you NEED the gun, there likely will be an awful lot of things happening in a small space in time;
    so many such that time for chambering a round may not be available

    otherwise known as 'he who hesitates is toast'
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  15. #45
    bnw
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    I'm relatively new compared to you guys, but have at least four years on my Glock model 22. For me, it's a simple matter of one step versus two steps. Two steps, by definition, is safer than one step in avoiding an accidental discharge. I can trust my weapon to not fire without the trigger being pulled - and i do. But if a round is in the chamber, it's still one step from firing as opposed to two. Personally, I keep mine in a bedside safe at night, but before putting it away, I take the round out of the chamber and then put the magazine back in the gun. If I wake up, it takes two steps to fire. I figure that in a groggy state waking to a noise or something, I want the extra step to make sure I'm good and awake. Also, on the very off chance my kids figure out how to open the safe, they could easily pull a trigger, but it would be harder for them to physically pull the slide to chamber a round. Again, it's safer because of the extra step.

    Just so I preempt the discussion going down this path... I do educate my kids on firearm safety and they have a respect for firearms. I figure that's the best way to keep them safe. But, a kid is still a kid and by definition, lacking adult judgement. I want the extra step there.

    Also, I have fully and completely come to the awareness that I am prepared to take a life in defense of my family. I'd throw myself in front of a bus to save one of my kids, so I definitely don't have a problem shooting a bad guy that threatens them.
    baren likes this.

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