December 20th, 2004 12:49 AM
Don't worry, ccm-tim, nobody's gonna hang ya here. We are all on the same side. It is a forum, however, so be prepared for some criticism. I think you will find the majority will support you even if we don't agree 100% with everything you publish. When my renewal comes up I will sign up for several years to make up for michael :D
Originally posted by ccm-tim
Holy Cow! I just stumbled across this forum and it sounds like you guys want to hang me! Two things. #1: I agree that Maria's column was questionable last month. We're getting lots of letters and she'll have to defend her article in the next issue's letters to the editor. Personally, I'd like to go to the shopping mall with my M1A slung across my back. #2 michael t; please give my magazine another chance... we've come along way in the last 9 months. We're very, very small and understaffed so please have a little patience. That is all for now. Sincerely,
Concealed Carry Magazine
I was reading your magazine last night (between running back and forth to the forum to see what the member count was up to) and groaned at reading one of the letters to the editor. It was the last one on page 3 where the reader was chastising you for "not having the courage to name the candidate you support" even though it was obvious to him by your statements. Pulling support from your magazine for something like that is incredible to me and probably illustrates why national CCW issue or federally mandated reciprocity will be a hard sell. As CCW holders we just don't pull together solidly enough to get something like that through.
Anyway, welcome to the forum and good luck with the magazine. If there's ever anything we can do, don't hesitate to let us know.
December 20th, 2004 03:53 PM
Hello, I see you've been discussing my latest article in CCM.
First, let me make something clear...I am no longer the National Spokesperson for Second Amendment Sisters. I left that organization in mid-May of this year.
Below is an email that the magazine received about my article, followed by my reply.
Additionally, I want to clear up what may have been a slight omission on my part. When I wrote about being a mother with kids in the fastfood place and calling the police...I was thinking back to the days when my kids were small, and that was BEFORE I became active in the battle for our Second Amendment rights. That IS what I would have done BACK THEN, and that's the reaction I think many non-gunowning, non-Second Amendment educated mothers would have today.
Also, yes, I would make for the door if armed men came into the fastfood place now. I am a gunowner, but I am not going to wait around to find out if they are just guys carrying open, or guys intent on doing harm. I look at the situation as a Trojan Horse kind of thing. While I am prepared to defend myself, I avoid situations where I might have to. It's also a different story if they come in with guns-ablazing...
Here is the email the magazine received-
--Regarding Maria Heils article on concealed or open carry: seig heil Maria! I guess it's OK in YOUR opinion to ONLY carry concealed because that's how you want it to be.
Let me say that while I have a ccw, I carry openly 99% of the time. Here in Arizona one need not have a license to carry openly. I\'ve carried openly in banks, malls, etc with No problems.
The more people see open carry, the MORE they accept it!
BTW, even though I live in an unincorporated area, I work & travel a lot in Phoenix & Scottsdale. So, even in the bigger cities I have no problem.
Rob (last name withheld by Maria)
Here is my reply--
First, let me say that it is a poor argument that opens with a grade school tactic of
twisting a person's surname to create a slur. It also seems pretty bigoted as well.
Now, the article IS my opinion, but you've apparently read more into it than was there.
I never stated that concealed carry is the "only" way "I" want it to be. If you really read
the article you would see that I do open carry on my own property. Actually, I never even
state whether "I" prefer to open carry or conceal carry. What I did write was that mostly
when open carry is utilized the outcome is a negative view of gun owners in general.
That's great that you don't need a license to open carry in Arizona...you shouldn't need a
license to conceal carry either, in any state.
I believe that women are going to make the difference in this battle to save our Second
Amendment rights. (Note-I'm not saying that the government granted those rights, but rather that
the Second Amendment protects those rights here in the United States.)
Being that I'm a woman and a mother, I wrote the article from that perspective. It is my perspective
that people who carry openly in the belief that "The more people see open carry, the MORE they
accept it!" are simply not thinking outside of their own little box.
Rob, have you asked perfect strangers what they think of you carrying openly when you walk into a bank?
Have you asked a women with small children in a fast food place what her opinion is that you
have a gun on your hip? If you haven't talked to everyone that has seen you carry open for their
opinion, then you are simply assuming that they are accepting of the open carry. This is wrong.
Human beings are complex creatures. There are perhaps THOUSANDS of different thoughts that
could go through a person's mind when they see a gun openly carried by a civilian. To assume that
they accept the whole concept of gun ownership simply because some people open carry is a very
narrow minded view of gun ownership and people in general.
There are times when it's best that people NOT know that someone is carrying a gun. One scenario
that comes to mind is maybe in that bank you carry in. Suppose an armed criminal enters the bank,
who is the first person they might "take out"? The guy in line with a gun on his belt, or the woman
standing next to him? You know the answer...never mind the fact that the woman has a .45 tucked
in her waist with her blouse covering it.
When people conceal carry, they are looked at on their own merits, not on the sometimes controversial
issue of guns. With concealed carry, first there is a judgment on you as a person, not a judgement on
the gun that you carry. With open carry, you are judged first on the gun (and the media bias will come into
play here) and most often they never get past that to the person.
As I said in the article, with concealed carry there is mostly no judgment on the gun because people don't
know it's there. If the need arises, and the gun must be used, and the outcome is positive, then there
has been a "win" for gun owners.
With open carry, there is a judgment made with the preconceived notions already existing in a person's
brain. It's not very often that that results in a "win" for gun owners. I'm not saying that all the notions
are negative, but I'm convinced that the majority of the time they are not positive due to the anti-gun slant
of the so-called mainstream media.
I guess, what I'm saying is "Why open that can of worms?" Let people get to know you first, then start
in on them about the gun issue.
Don't get in their face, get in their minds.
Thank you for your comments.
December 20th, 2004 05:27 PM
Thanks for the clarification.
I prefer concealed carry for myself for any number of tactical reasons. I prefer to fly under everyone's radar and not be First Target or have someone creep up behind me.
I also don't mind openly discussing guns and using myself as a "non-stereotypical" gun owner to help convert fence-sitters.
People used to carry openly in the good-ol'days without others ducking for cover. It's a shame that the landscape has changed and we now wear a scarlett letter on our chests. I hope that landscape will change again, and it may, but it won't be any time soon.
December 20th, 2004 05:33 PM
I also am a subscriber to CC magazine and really like it. It's only going to get better in my opinion.
In regards to open carry, I prefer keeping a low profile.
December 20th, 2004 06:20 PM
All anyone has to do is say that you are disturbing
their peace, raise enough hell with the local media and politicians, and you are going to get convicted. It's not worth the risk. I want my having a gun to be a BIG surprise, to everybody.
December 20th, 2004 08:17 PM
I wish CCW magazine was in the stores along with all the other gun rags :(
December 20th, 2004 11:47 PM
We all appreciate your clarifying your article. I am in total agreement with your explanation to Rob. I am also from Arizona and, quite frankly, my perception has been more in line with yours rather than Rob's on the rare occasion that I carried openly here in town. You rarely see it here and when I do, I am always surprised. On all occasions it has simply been someone open carrying legally, but it would not be prudent to believe everyone with a openly carried weapon is just exercising their right. With the crime rate here you tend to think otherwise.
As I have said before, I appreciate having the right and privelege of carrying openly. I will carry only concealed, thank you. I don't want to draw attention from most other people I encounter and have them thinking I am one of the bad guys.
December 21st, 2004 12:29 AM
Maria, What if you were in a fastfood place and a WOMAN came in open carrying,still head for door? Do the Police carrying openly bother you or is it ok because they have a uniform. Most Police aren\'t gun people and look how many ND and accidental shootings their involved in.Maybe they shouldn\'t open carry,How about they don\'t carry at all make those libs happy.
Why do you make it a point to tell us you open carry on your property My self I walk around in my underwear on my property Who cares !
Also you like the Iam a WOMAN and a MOTHER thing a lot Well I a MAN and a FATHER once again who cares.
I belive you wrote what you belive first time and got call on it and now your trying to talk your way out. Thats my .02 :)
December 21st, 2004 05:24 AM
Michael T... I've no problem walking out the door if a woman comes in with a gun. Don\'t read things into my writing that just aren't there, please.
I also never said, nor assumed, that police were better trained. Some are, some aren't. But, they get paid to deal with situations, I don't.
I put the WOMAN and MOTHER "thing" in there because that's what I am, and that's where my perspective is coming from. I think it always helps the reader to better understand an opinion if they know the background of the writer.
BTW-the column is under the department heading as "A Woman's Perspective".
I'm surprised that you are making so many assumptions about me and my writing. You are entitiled to believe what you want, of course, but your assumptions are way off base. That's my 2 cents, and I'm the one who wrote the piece. Thank you.
December 21st, 2004 10:42 AM
A closer look needed?
Once again- I find this young lady has come right to the point-- Those who write for the assorted firearm publications, and their proof readers, would do VERY WELL to study their OWN writings BEFORE going to press. Thus it never be in question just what they mean. To do so, would keep the anti's at least (MAYBE) at arms length.:o We must assume they write because they believe? if not, then they really should not be passing themselves off as a (gun person) :P
Originally posted by Betty
If Ms. Heil had bad wording and didn't mean to come across the way she did, her words will be happily taken out of context by the antis. If she did mean what she said, the antis will be jumping up and down in glee.
It amazes me that sometimes fellow gun owners can do
more to hurt our own cause than the antis.
December 21st, 2004 12:48 PM
I must point out here, ANYTHING that ANYONE writes or says can be twisted to suit the anti-gunner's purposes. All they have to do is take things out of context, or add a few ... in the middle of a quote. It's rather easy to do it, and can work for both sides.
I hope that anyone who thinks it is possible to write an ironclad, non-twistable column will please start doing so right away. Please submit your articles to all the gun magazines you can find. We need people like you to get involved and start speaking up. We need your thoughts in the magazines, not just in forums on the net.
December 21st, 2004 01:32 PM
maria, i appreciate you coming here to discuss this. i hope you dont feel like were on opposite ends of the spectrum, because we are on the same side.
Have you asked a women with small children in a fast food place what her opinion is that you have a gun on your hip?
the criticism i have to not just your opinion printed in the article, but towards all those who are anti-open-carry, is that it only serves to feed into the illegitimate fears of those who wish to take all firearms out of civilian hands.
what is it about firearms that makes a person untrustworthy? is it the simple fact that you *know* they are armed that makes you fearful? if you knew they were carrying concealed, would that make it 'allright'?
you stated that you believe that no one should be required to have the license to carry concealed, yet you dont want to see people carrying open. can you see how its confusing?
if you feel that law abiding citizens like you and me are trustworthy to carry concealed, why are we not trusted to carry open?
personally, i have never been bothered by the requirement to obtain the license to ccw. i live in a state that has excellent firearm laws. we recognize CCW permits from any state, unlicensed ccw is lawful (still under obligations of informing peace officer, etc), open carry is lawful, and hardly anyone bats an eye at the sight of a gun on your hip.
even our liberal democrats are well armed, and recognize that carrying is just common sense. of course, there is probably an equal risk of having to use your weapon against a charging moose or buzzing mosquito as there is to use it against 2-legged thugs.
but the point is still the same. if you clear out of an area just because you see someone armed and unthreatening, you propogate the fear of an inanimate object.
i ask you, is it the gun/knife/mallot that makes an individual dangerous?
December 21st, 2004 02:22 PM
I believe that children being near brings out the fear factor. Little ones see the gun different than big people. Open carry may have its place because its part of the town/ranch/home work characteristic but in general open carry does generate concerns in a different setting such as California in a town near the coast where I live. I understand what she is saying and her concerns, their not anti gun, she is concerned about her children. I would feel uncomfortable carrying open unless I lived where wildlife was an everyday concern or transit people were. It is quite a topic with many views.
December 21st, 2004 04:31 PM
I NEVER said I was opposed to open carry...I would love to utilize open carry because it is much easier than concealed.
It's just not a good idea to do so at this point in time.
First of all, did you read the article, or just bits and pieces that people posted?
Where I live, if someone came in with open carry, I wouldn't be the only one headed out the door. In these post Sept. 11th times, more people are more aware of their surroundings. Having someone come in with open carry just puts red flags up for most people.
Please read the original article. It was more about how the general public reacts to open carry vs concealed carry and which option has a more positive outcome for our gun rights.
December 21st, 2004 05:05 PM
tell me, how many times has a criminal or terrorist began an attack while openly carrying a holstered sidearm?
how many criminals even think about using a holster?
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