This is a discussion on Attorney within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Marty Hayes Just to clarify, the ACLDN Network Affiliated Attorneys are members of the Network who understand the issues involved with concealed ...
It's the same when I'm riding my motorcycle; I don't plan on getting in an accident, but I'm as prepared as possible. I don't plan on ever needing his services, but it makes me feel better knowing I have someone to call.
I disagree with many who responded they don't have an attorney that it's a waste of money to have one on retainer, etc. *No one plans to be involved in a self defense shooting but should it happen you will need an attorney and you'll need one IMMEDIATELY. *Searching for an attorney after a shooting could cost you more than money.
As a side note here's*Massad*Ayoob’s Five-Point Post Shooting Checklist
1. * Tell responding officers “I’m the victim; he is the perpetrator.”
2. *Tell responding officers, “I will sign a complaint.”
3. *Point out pertinent evidence.
4. *Point out any witnesses who saw what happened.
5. * ====> If there is any hint that you are a suspect, say “Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I have counsel here.”
The Three Most Common Post-Shooting Errors
You also check out the Armed Citizens Networks recent article entitled "Be Prepared for the Aftermath of a Self-Defense Shooting"
Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.
Second Amendment America's Original Homeland Security!
"Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion...in private self-defense" - John Adams
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson
#2 on the speed dial, after what happened to my friend 6 months ago, I follow the theory that you need to protect yourself in more than one way.
I have typed this before, but I can't find the post so I will type it again.
I have had my CHL since '95 when it became legal in TX. I spoke to a LEO friend of mine at the time and asked who he would call if he or someone in his family had to defend themselves with a firearm in a self defense situation. He got back to me a couple of days later with a name and said he would trust his family to this attorney if that happened. He got names from the Union and then asked other officers that had used them if they would use them if their spouse needed it.(Seems he had not thought of it before and was just gong to leave it to the union if he was involved. I asked about the wife and it made him think, so he asked his fellow LEOs.)
I called the guy and told him I was getting my CHL when it became law and would like to speak to him about defense. He and I got together in his office for a free consultation where I learned about his 2A views and his approach to a self defense shooting scenario. I decided I liked his outlook and still feel the same today.
He and I get together about once every 6 months or so and have lunch on my dime. He has said I am the longest relationship he has had since passing the Bar that he has never defended. If I call his number at 3am, he will recognize my number and name. He will post my bond and then we will put together my defense.
His only instructions to me were:
#1. Tell the 911 operator that I had discharged my weapon in defense of myself, give a description of the surroundings and my attire.
#2. Follow all LEO instructions.
#3. Tell The LEOs on the scene that I was in fear for my/another's life, give them my DL and CHL and then ask "To speak to my attorney before I answer any more questions." The LEOs will then stop questioning and either arrest you or let you go home. This keeps you from saying things that might be misinterpreted by a Prosecutor later.
Then you STHU and call him if you haven't already.
Some would say that the $500 or so I have spent on lunch in the last 15 years could have been spent on guns/ammo/equipment, but I consider it a good investment and it is certainly better than me or someone else that I have called collect from jail looking in the Yellow Pages or on-line for someone that might be less than a zealous advocate for my 2A rights and might determine the outcome of the rest of my life.
This is just how I have done it.
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Although I have never needed one I decided a few years ago it wouldn't hurt to have a couple of attorneys in the phone just in case. Met with a handful and picked 2 that I 'clicked' with. I get together with them 2x a year for happy hour just to keep in touch. I wouldn't consider them friends, but I am confident that a couple of drinks 2x a year is enough that they remember my name and take my call. I stagger the happy hours so that at any given time I have talked to one of them within the last couple of months. That's as close to a retainer as I get, but I consider the $20 a year money well spent. Had a friend make a bad decision (driving related) and they called me...my first call was to one of the attorney's and they there before I was.
I know and have used a couple of lawyers who are knowledgeable on the subject and keep their numbers in my phone directory.
I doubt an attorney would secure a retainer for a potential self defense shooting, as its very unlikely you are going to be involved in a self defense shooting in the near future. Also, if you give an attorney retainer and he or she doesn't do any work for you for several months, the attorney will be obligated to return it. We can't just sit on your cash for 10 years, waiting for you to call us. Many local ethics rules would require as much.
As others have noted - if you are really concerned, meet with a few attorneys (you may have to pay for an hour of their time) find one you are comfortable with, and keep his or her card. And go to your state bar's web site and see if he or she has ever been disciplined. For the most part our profession is pretty boring, but the disciplinary actions for the few yahoos that get all the publicity makes for some interesting reading.
Any attorney who accepts an interest-free loan as a "retainer" for services he/she is very unlikely to perform is not a good attorney. Give me an indefinite interest-free $500 loan, and I'll give a business card from a very good attorney, too. Plus, I promise to give the money to the attorney you choose when you need them.
Over the years, I've had an opportunity to train many lawyers, city attorneys, and county prosecutors. Most say something similar. Keep it simple for them to avoid having to charge you. Tell the police only the basics and what's in the interest of public safety, repeating short sentences that any officer can easily write down. They will do background checks, listen to the 911 calls, read officer's statements, and witness depositions to make the determination or send it to a grand jury.
"Thank goodness you're here, I'm the one who called."
"Officer, he tried to kill me."
"I was in fear of my life."
"I had to defend myself."
"He had an accomplice who went that way dressed...and threw something into those bushes."
"Those people saw what happened."
If you are asked if you are hurt, say "I don't know." Say nothing else, do not elaborate, do not chit chat, but cooperate. Your manner and attire do say something. If questioned, reply only that you'll give a complete statement and press charges after you've had time to recover. If you are pressed further, then tell them you'll answer all of their questions with advice from your counsel. Remember the exact words you use and tell your lawyer what was said.
Most of us know a lawyer, or someone else who knows one. That lawyer may not be the best to defend a criminal case. Ask him or someone in law enforcement to tell you whom they would want representing them in a similar case. I recommend joining the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network and having the NRA insurance. If your lawyer knows about these benefits, and you maintain a casual relationship, you can learn in advance what may need to be done to post bail, etc. You do not need to pay a retainer.
Check with your home owner's insurance agent to be sure they will handle any civil repercussions.
This is too important to put off. We need to be ready to defend ourselves legally and financially as well as physically. As the TV commercials say "Call Now!"
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
I now have a name of a local attorney who is supposed to be the best. I've not made contact, but I have the number...
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
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NRA Life Member
I know you have a strong feeling about retainers from past discussions. But any attorney who treats client funds as if it were an "interest-free loan" isn't acting ethically. They are not allowed to use these funds, at all, until they are billed for services to the client. In fact, many firms participate in programs where the interest from trust accounts in which client money is kept is donated to charities.
This retainer issue comes up a lot - seems kind of odd that it does. I think the collective knowledge of the users here would be better applied to discussing more pressing issues - such as why the .38 special is THE BEST SD round available.*
*That's an obvious troll. Don't respond. For the love of God, don't respond.
My attorney is a personal friend. However, I don't keep her number in my phone. And if it came to the point where I needed her, I'd have my wife or my daughter or another family member call her. I don't want even the remotest chance that the prosecution would use the fact that I have an attorney's number in my phone as a sign I had planned on using my weapon. Call me paranoid, but the government is out to get me. (and you, too)
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"