Leave my gun where???

This is a discussion on Leave my gun where??? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you are a CC permit holder in Wisconsin, the USPS parking lot ban holds no water. We are guaranteed the right to keep our ...

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Thread: Leave my gun where???

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    If you are a CC permit holder in Wisconsin, the USPS parking lot ban holds no water. We are guaranteed the right to keep our firearms in our vehicle in any parking lot despite what any policy says.

    All states should have that simple right given to law abiding citizens.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    I have a lockbox under the seat. I's this one.... The Perfect In-Car Gun Safe - Magills.com

  4. #18
    Member Array McDonaldUSMC's Avatar
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    Well seems like in my state I am in fact not obligated to unload and lock. So that said I think I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and put that $30 toward ammo and call it a day. Thanks fellas.
    Semper Fi

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    I would still recommend a lock box, it tucks away and is way more secure then stuffing it into your glovebox

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    If you are a CC permit holder in Wisconsin, the USPS parking lot ban holds no water. We are guaranteed the right to keep our firearms in our vehicle in any parking lot despite what any policy says.

    All states should have that simple right given to law abiding citizens.
    You really think the state law will trump federal law in this case?
    Hoganbeg likes this.
    ~~~~~
    The only common sense gun legislation was written about 224 years ago.

    I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.

  7. #21
    Member Array Maxwell47's Avatar
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    I have to leave mine locked in the console in a locked car everyday at work. I good clip on holster can be taken off and put back on easily and descreetly in teh driver's seat.

  8. #22
    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
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    I've never carried in the post office. But then again, I don't own any guns either.
    Last edited by Yankeejib; December 4th, 2011 at 06:34 PM.
    kaboomkaboom likes this.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post
    You really think the state law will trump federal law in this case?
    Yes, the postal service is a business. Just because it is run by the government does not mean that it is NOT required to follow the same rules as any other business.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    If you are parked in the "PO" parking lot, that's also illegal. Illegal to have it there period.

    I'm not sure about when POs are part of shopping plazas, etc. There, it's not federal property so probably ok to have gun...on you or locked in car.

    In my town, I've had to consider it when I wanted to drive in and use the drive up mailboxes in the PO parking lot.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    If you are a CC permit holder in Wisconsin, the USPS parking lot ban holds no water. We are guaranteed the right to keep our firearms in our vehicle in any parking lot despite what any policy says.

    All states should have that simple right given to law abiding citizens.
    Are you positive about that? The laws most states have recently passed are regarding private property or city/state property that the lots are on.

    I've had 2 instructors say that a standalone PO is likely on Federal property and not allowed. One even said that having it in the car on highways that cross federal installations, like army bases, is illegal but not enforced.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  12. #26
    Member Array Penhall's Avatar
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    I think people are getting hung up on the post office scenario. I think the real question in the OP was what to do with a gun when you can't/won't/don't take it with you. To me, it's about being a responsible gun owner. When I leave my home, the guns that aren't going with me go in the gun safe. I don't want to give an unarmed BG who breaks into my house the opportunity to use any of my weapons against me or anyone else. The same should be considered for your vehicle. Even the "I'm just going to be gone for a second" excuse is a poor one. If you've left your gun behind for some reason, and it's unsecured, you might come back to your car to find a BG, who was previously only armed with a brick and looking for some CD's, now in position of your weapon. Not a good scenario to be in.

    My advice, whether it's required by law or not, if you're going to have to leave your gun behind for whatever reason, make sure it's secured. It's the responsible thing to do and it might save someone's life.



    *edit for spelling.

  13. #27
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    Yes, the postal service is a business.
    The Postal Service property is USA property.

    Whether the Postal Service is a "business" has nothing to do with anything. State law will NEVER overrule federal law if they conflict, hence the federal prohibition regarding Post Office carry is absolute and state law does not mean a tinkers darn.

    Tread wisely here, you could end up a test case if you are not careful.

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  14. #28
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Now it comes down to regulations and how they are treated vs state laws. I was not able to find a simple answer to that question. It appears that federal regulations need to meet the Chevron deference. Seeing as what I can tell, the regulation has to apply to the nature of the organization that enacted the regulation which means that state laws could in fact overrule them if they are not a direct part of the organizations ruling authority.

    I'm not seeing how a federal regulation in this case, which would be a business policy, could not be overruled by a state law that directly deals with the issue. The regulation deals with an issue that has nothing to do with the USPS business.

    That being said, I'm gald I have a mailbox and don't need to go to the postal office. When I need stamps, I can buy them at my grocery store, which clearly is not federal property, and the property has not been posted. I can also ship packages from there. Which makes my life simpler.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    I Park in the other parking lot, That they don't own & lock ; )
    H/D
    A Native Floridian = RARE


    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
    H/D

  16. #30
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    Arguing the USA Postal service is a "Business" subject to the state law prohibiting restrictions on carry etc. is not correct. The USPS is not a "business" by any stretch of the imagination and beyond reasonable torture of the language.

    Furthermore, it is prohibited by Statute, and only requires a plain reading:

    Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities


    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both. (Emphasis added)

    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

    (c) A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113.

    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to:

    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law;or

    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    (e) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

    (2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph(1) or (2) of subsection (d).

    (f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.

    (g) As used in this section:

    (1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties. (Emphasis added)

    (2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.

    (3) The term "Federal court facility" means the courtroom, judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.

    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection(a) or (e), as the case may be.
    These are STATUTES - Not Regulations. Big difference. Here is some more information: http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf

    Also check out the federal Supremacy and Preemption statutes while you're at it (informational link below).

    Feel free to just walk right into your local USPS office and explain the state law overrides the federal statutes. I am sure they will listen intently. You'll then get to explain it to a Justice Department Attorney too. You could even be a test case. Contact RMGO and NRA too. Have fun.

    You might want to read this again also: http://www.vaildaily.com/ARTICLE/201...1139986/-1/RSS

    I'll look up the pre-emption statutes for you here in a minute. Here's a decent discussion of federal Supremacy and Preemption: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...preemption.htm

    The preemption doctrine derives from the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution which states that the "Constitution and the laws of the United States...shall be the supreme law of the land...anything in the constitutions or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." This means of course, that any federal law--even a regulation of a federal agency--trumps any conflicting state law.

    Preemption can be either express or implied. When Congress chooses to expressly preempt state law, the only question for courts becomes determining whether the challenged state law is one that the federal law is intended to preempt. Implied preemption presents more difficult issues, at least when the state law in question does not directly conflict with federal law. The Court then looks beyond the express language of federal statutes to determine whether Congress has "occupied the field" in which the state is attempting to regulate, or whether a state law directly conflicts with federal law, or whether enforcement of the state law might frustrate federal purposes.

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