Hypothetical Discussion with friends...opinions?? - Page 2

Hypothetical Discussion with friends...opinions??

This is a discussion on Hypothetical Discussion with friends...opinions?? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; By kneeling directly behind them and covering their hands with mine, I taught all of my kids how to shoot my full-size .45ACP 1911 when ...

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Thread: Hypothetical Discussion with friends...opinions??

  1. #16
    Member Array Eaglebeak's Avatar
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    By kneeling directly behind them and covering their hands with mine, I taught all of my kids how to shoot my full-size .45ACP 1911 when each one was about 5 years old so they could quickly learn to respect it by the sound, sharp recoil I let them feel, and the milk jug full of water that exploded in front of us. They were a little frightened at first, but installing a great respect and apprehension for what it could do in reality was the objective instead of letting their thoughts and inquisitive nature be influenced in the wrong direction by movies and video games. They very quickly began begging to go out shooting very often, but the high degree of respect they had gained for a gun always kept them at a distance from it unless I had it in my hands. Even when it was laying on the table while I was cleaning it, they would walk a wide circle around it and never cross in front of the muzzle - mission accomplished.

    As they grew older, I still kept all my other guns locked in the safe and the HD Colt 1911 was kept in my nightstand drawer, unloaded, slide locked back, and the loaded magazines were kept in a well-concealed magazine holder I had rigged between the mattress and bed's headboard - in easy reach, but virtually impossible for anyone to find even on a trophy hunt. The kids all knew where the .45 was kept; but, even though I was sure they respected it enough to never mess with it when I was outside (never left them home alone), I told them I'd instantly know if any of them even touched it - and there would be hell to pay. Note: that was a fact because there was a tiny knot (about pin-head size) in the bottom of the drawer that I always perfectly aligned with the bottom of the trigger at the trigger guard, and most adults would never notice that alignment and place it back exactly the same.

    Keeping the pistol unloaded with the slide locked open pretty well removed any possible liability of any visiting kid (or anyone else) from doing anything else but steal the gun because there were no magazines or bullets available; but I could quickly pull a loaded magazine from it's secret place, snap it home, and hit the slide release quick enough to feel very comfortable with. As they grew older, all the kids learned everything about operating and loading the 1911 during our many shooting trips; but nothing changed about the hidden magazines until each of my kids turned 12 years old and was legally able (and me to be comfortable with) to be "home alone" for short periods of time and supervise the younger ones.

    When each one turned 12 (except for one), I took them out alone for a special day when I made a big deal out of installing an "honor of passage" in becoming a young adult. We enjoyed a good day shooting alone, going out for a nice dinner, then I told him/her where the 1911 magazines were kept. I explained to them what an honor this was for me to trust them enough to share such a highly important secret that would allow them to keep our family safe if I wasn't able to do so, and made sure they understood that I expected them to maintain that "adult secret" strictly to themselves and never make any mention to the other kids (regardless of their age) that they knew about the magazines because I would share that same honor of trust with them if and when I felt they were mature enough to do so.

    At least, for my family, that worked very well; and all but one of my kids was able to defend themselves or the home when they turned 12 if that had ever become necessary. Any parent knows each of their children is an individual with varied degrees of ability and responsibility. Being said, my oldest son was always a hot-head with a quick temper and never managed to muster any kind of self-discipline or personal responsbility. So, while my daughter, then youngest son, both received their "right of passage" at 12 years of age, my oldest son (now 39 if he's still alive somewhere) was never trusted with that knowledge.

    I never thought much more about those years past until last Christmas when my youngest son (now 22) was back on leave from the Navy, and we spent Christmas with my daughter (now 24), her husband and my new grandson. During some of our conversation about good times past, the subject of the Colt-in-the-drawer came up and how everyone enjoyed going out for out little shooting expeditions. When I suddenly noticed both of them giving me this "knowing look", I told them that I had shared the "right of passage" about the magazines with each one of them - but not their older brother. I was very proud to hear that each of them had kept that honored secret because neither of them ever knew for sure that I'd told the other about it - and obviously, the older son never knew.


  2. #17
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    If it is a legitimate use for self defense purpose I doubt there is a court in this land which will prosecute either you or the child for any crimes or form of negligence.

    If however, the shooting is not a legitimate case of self defense, then the child using the gun will no doubt be charged, and you as the parent will likely have some form of repercussion for allowing access to the weapon.

    It all hinges on whether or not it is truly a legitimate case of self defense.

    Cases abound throughout the country, where children who are 10 & 11 years of age have used firearms to defend either themselves or a parent (usually the mother, because there is no father around) against an intruder in the home and no one has ever been charged for a crime when the case was a true and legitimate self defense issue.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGun4169 View Post
    18 to own/use a rifle or shotgun but 21 for a handgun says it all !
    No it doesn't....please cite to fact
    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGun4169 View Post
    If you are responsible enough at 18 then yes .
    So one's life isn't valuable until 18?
    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGun4169 View Post
    At 18 you could purchase a rifle or shotgun so why not a handgun ?
    You can't purchase a handgun from an FFL at 18...must wait until 21; you can purchase a firearm through a private sale--per Federal Law--Title 18, Chapter 44, Section 922(x)(1)...see http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGun4169 View Post
    I guess because of the barrel legnth ?
    If you could serve your country at 18 and operate military weapons why not be able to buy a handgun ! Somethings just don't make sense ?
    Ask your representative the dichotomy of your question. Otherwise, see Federal law cited above
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I had my own rifle and shotgun by the time I was 10. They sat in my closet, right along with the ammo. That was a different day than today, but I could have defended myself.

    1) any 'person' is allowed to defend themselves from an attack. It doesn't say "only if you are over 21" , at least it doesn't here.

    2) I can't speak for other states, but ... I wouldn't see a problem here if they were alone and defended themselves. If they grabbed your gun due to you being incapacitated, I would still see no issue legal issues with it here.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGun4169 View Post
    18 to own/use a rifle or shotgun but 21 for a handgun says it all !
    If you are responsible enough at 18 then yes . At 18 you could purchase a rifle or shotgun so why not a handgun ? I guess because of the barrel legnth ?
    If you could serve your country at 18 and operate military weapons why not be able to buy a handgun ! Somethings just don't make sense ?
    Something I have always had a problem with. Before I was 21 I had fired:
    Browning 50 cal machine guns
    Several 5 inch Naval guns
    M-16's
    Several 1911's
    The 16 inch guns on USS Wisconsin
    and several M-14's

    All while in the service of my country! So, if I was old enough to sign papers stating I would defend the constitution of the United States of America from all enemies foreign and domestic with, if need be, my very life, why the hell does the government of that same country feel it can't trust me to own a handgun? What does the government fear from the very people it relies upon to ensure its existence?
    ,=====o00o _
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  6. #21
    Member Array Bhamrichard's Avatar
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    1. As dad's we conceal carry 90% of the time as allowed by law. Most of our kids know this. BG presents himself as intending to harm us and for any given reason takes dad out of the game (permenantly or otherwise). Do our children then have the right to aquire our carry weapon and defend themselves appropriately??
    Yes

    2. Some of our sons are old enough now where at times, they may be left to themselves at home while us adults partake in shopping, dinner, movie, etc.... If a BG were to break in the home, other than dialing 911, would our sons have the right to defend themselves with an available firearm if necessary??
    Also, yes. Other considerations withstanding, everyone has the legal right to defend themselves to the degree necessary to stop/disengage from an attacker, regardless of age. Only an idiot prosecutor would attempt to charge a minor with some statute, where self defense was involved. And I seriously doubt such charges would go very far under the self defense scenario.

    Having said that: The news is replete with people being charged by idiot prosecutors :)
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...

    Alabama Constitution of 1901 - That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array mastercapt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGun4169 View Post
    18 to own/use a rifle or shotgun but 21 for a handgun says it all !
    If you are responsible enough at 18 then yes . At 18 you could purchase a rifle or shotgun so why not a handgun ? I guess because of the barrel legnth ?
    If you could serve your country at 18 and operate military weapons why not be able to buy a handgun ! Somethings just don't make sense ?
    It gets worse than that. I believe the 21 to BUY a pistol is federal.
    I was employed at a police equipment company as an electronic technician, back in 1978. However, when there was nothing to repair, I worked the sales floor. A young man came in with his mother. He was a sworn officer, in uniform, with an issued 38 on his utility belt. He had the proper ID and everything. He had just gotten off his probationary period and his mother wanted to buy him a 357 as "graduation" gift. The man was 20 yrs old. I called ATF and asked if a police officer under 21 could buy a pistol. They said no, but after explaining the situation, he said to sell it to the mother, on paper. Thats what I did
    So, are the police forces violating the law by furnishing a handgun to an officer under 21? Food for thought?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastercapt View Post
    It gets worse than that. I believe the 21 to BUY a pistol is federal.
    I was employed at a police equipment company as an electronic technician, back in 1978. However, when there was nothing to repair, I worked the sales floor. A young man came in with his mother. He was a sworn officer, in uniform, with an issued 38 on his utility belt. He had the proper ID and everything. He had just gotten off his probationary period and his mother wanted to buy him a 357 as "graduation" gift. The man was 20 yrs old. I called ATF and asked if a police officer under 21 could buy a pistol. They said no, but after explaining the situation, he said to sell it to the mother, on paper. Thats what I did
    So, are the police forces violating the law by furnishing a handgun to an officer under 21? Food for thought?
    No, because the individual who is under 21 is not buying the handgun. It is being issued to them by the department.

    The law merely states that individuals under age of 21 can not purchase handguns. It is perfectly legal for someone to gift a handgun to a person under 21 or a police department to issue a handgun to the individual.

    One might think "where's the logic in that?" But since when did laws revolve around logic?
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Down here in South Texas about 6 months ago there was a home invasion and an 11 year old boy used a 22 rifle to defend his mom and brother,one aggressor was shot.
    There wasn't any evidence at the scene but a neighbor said that they loaded up several bundles in a vehicle several hours before the home invasion.It kinda sounds like the BG's targeted a drug stash house,but got to the party late
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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