Best Approach for Those You're Around at the Range Acting Unsafely? - Page 3

Best Approach for Those You're Around at the Range Acting Unsafely?

This is a discussion on Best Approach for Those You're Around at the Range Acting Unsafely? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by gunsnroses JMO and I hope I don't offend any RO's here, but I pay range fee's and I expect a good level ...

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Thread: Best Approach for Those You're Around at the Range Acting Unsafely?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnroses View Post

    JMO and I hope I don't offend any RO's here, but I pay range fee's and I expect a good level of supervision of the safety of said range. Everyone should?
    No offense taken and I agree with you 100 percent.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    I understand what you are saying, but grabbing a gun while in another person's hand is a disaster waiting to happen. You can't really immobilize the gun before he can pull the trigger. If he was actually shooting, you can be darn sure I would not be grabbing the gun!

    I have had a similar situation, but was by his side in a few steps and yelled in his ear to put the gun down. That stopped his motion. Then I unloaded the pistol and watched him load up his stuff and escorted him off the range to his vehicle.
    I, being the one who was faced with the exact situation that I was faced with, believed, and still believe that what I did was the correct course of action for that situation. I do, of course, concede that it in general, it is not the preferred approach.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    No offense taken and I agree with you 100 percent.
    None taken here either. And I agree, the safety of other shooters should always be the RO's first priority.

  4. #34
    Member Array gunsnroses's Avatar
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    Thanks all you RSO's. I didn't think you would be.

    I really like it when a RSO is respectful and educational rather then demeaning and condescending (not counting a immediate safety concern).

    We just had a range here that closed down (Knight's) because It got a bad rep due to the RSO's. Word travels fast in the gun community and they slowly lost business until they finally closed. They will reopen soon with a new owner.

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinFool View Post
    I, being the one who was faced with the exact situation that I was faced with, believed, and still believe that what I did was the correct course of action for that situation. I do, of course, concede that it in general, it is not the preferred approach.
    I'm happy you got away with it with no one getting injured. The method may be suspect but the outcome was good!
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    I'm happy you got away with it with no one getting injured. The method may be suspect but the outcome was good!
    As am I. I had dealt with similar situations before, and never had to resort to such an action. But this guy just wasn't listening to verbal instructions and commands. In the many years since that time, I have not felt the need for such an admittedly drastic approach.

  7. #37
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinFool View Post
    As am I. I had dealt with similar situations before, and never had to resort to such an action. But this guy just wasn't listening to verbal instructions and commands. In the many years since that time, I have not felt the need for such an admittedly drastic approach.
    Never been in that position but one idea to avoid danger of contact with weapon: temporarily clear the range - ordering all to avoid dangerous range-shooter while exiting - then call 911. (Or shut the range down first by turning off all range equipment, clear it of other shooters, second, and then: 911.)

    Let the LEOs handle this - its not just poor range behavior but at the point this guy was at potentially lethal hazard due to his own negligence. That's illegal and immediate public threat. Drastic action but not so much as danger to you, him or others by going for his gun - nor possible liability in case there's a shot while struggling with the gun - which could happen.

    If it did, the Range official would be in a dicey spot - for a court would only focus on the act (the shot) which caused the damage: injury or death to another (if that happened). First question: Who was responsible for that shot? Grabbing someone's loaded gun which resulted in the shot, well..... be very hard to claim it was anyone else but the Range Officer. (Even if the range-shooter was unsafe beforehand, that unsafe activity did not cause the shot: the physical intervention of another person did). Was the person who caused the shot negligent? The Range official again is on thin ice: he's have to prove THAT was the only available action to stop an imminent death or injury - that would be equally difficult - it is not at all SOP at ranges for Range officials to grapple with range-shooters' guns. It would especially be difficult here because , in fact, it did not prevent anything but actually resulted in a death or injury. VERY thin ice.

    I'm not criticizing the actions, I wasn't there. Just saying it may be a better idea to possibly let proper authorities handle the unsafe shooter, while the Range officer takes care of clearing the area. Prevents possible shots while struggling with a gun - and also potential legal issues, civil, even criminal - if that were to happen.

    Why get killed or another killed while putting your neck in a legal noose at the same time?
    Last edited by walleye; December 15th, 2011 at 04:03 AM.
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  8. #38
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    Had a guy point a Dan Wesson at me once at a range. I had been admiring the gun while he was shooting in the lane next to me, and he was watching me shoot an old .22 revolver that always draws attention. I turned once when he was behind me watching me shoot, and smiled and acknowledged his fine hand gun that he had in his hand -- first problem, he was carrying it around unnecessarily. So he lifted it up, pointed it right at me and asked me if I wanted to check it out. I stepped aside, pushed it down and asked him if he'd been shooting long. The ensuing 'discussion' -- I'm 6'3" and go about 250, so I can look somewhat intimidating when I'm a little hot under the collar -- finally gave me an opportunity to drill the four cardinal rules into his pea brain. I say finally because my first responses to him were not polite and did little to inform of anything except my opinion of his IQ.

    By that time the RO had come into the room. They do not always stay in the range proper, but just outside and can see what's going on through glass as well as a video camera setup they use. The RO's first problem was with the general altercation, but since I'm always there and they know me well he gave me a chance to explain things. Then he just backed up and let me finish my impromptu lesson.

    In the end I got a chance to talk to the range guys about a little better check on shooters before they let them go in -- something more than just having them read a set of rules and sign off that they understand them. They've since implemented a set of questions that help them determine if someone really has enough experience to be left alone.

    I do think that these are all situations where in hindsight or in theory we all handle better than we did in the midst of the problem.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18

  9. #39
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    On time, I saw a student about to attend a gun safety class dry-fire his revolver at the wall facing the showroom. I told him that is not a good idea and he went ahead and proceeded. For that, I yanked his revolver from him and that got the staff's attention. As a result, he got kicked out of the class and the shop. Makes my blood boil when someone does that w/ little or no regard for everyone's safety.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    When I'm at the range, I'm a range safety officer. Yell "CEASE FIRE", explain the rules once, if they can't follow them I'm getting the management and/or getting out of there.
    walleye likes this.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  11. #41
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnK87 View Post
    When I'm at the range, I'm a range safety officer. Yell "CEASE FIRE", explain the rules once, if they can't follow them I'm getting the management and/or getting out of there.
    I like that. ROs are not supposed to be LEOS. Get the owner or reps - call the cops - get out (I'd order everyone else out too).

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