Brandishing a weapon in self defense...

This is a discussion on Brandishing a weapon in self defense... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think the answer rests in the definition of "brandish": transitive verb 1: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly 2: to exhibit in ...

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Thread: Brandishing a weapon in self defense...

  1. #46
    Member Array DrPastor's Avatar
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    I think the answer rests in the definition of "brandish": transitive verb
    1: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
    2: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

    To brandish is not to defend or to ward off an aggressor. It is true; do not pull your weapon unprepared to use it, but if the threat of use reverses the aggressor, deadly force is no longer deemed appropriate, albeit one would probably prevail if one did fire, as the threat did exsist. No doubt it would be a split second decision, and it should be reported right away, as the previous writer indicated, so you get the report right first!
    NYCrulesU and ErnieNWillis like this.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    To brandish is not to defend or to ward off an aggressor.
    Some States do not use the definition of brandish that you find in the common dictionary. They make up their own. Do not assume that each State uses the same meaning for even the most common words.

    Now in the State where I live brandishing is legal when used in self defense.
    1: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
    2: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner
    That is exactly how I have used mine in self-defense. A criminal would use it the same way only for other reasons.

    Michael

  4. #48
    Member Array maat's Avatar
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    My instructor told our class of a time when he was outside a mall. He said there was an irate man yelling at people. While he was walking to his car, the man turned his attention to him so he wiggled his infrared sights(from behind his car where the man could not see his gun but could see the dot) on the ground in front of the man, in which he immediatly backed down.

  5. #49
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    Really? Now THAT I could see being an issue...

    Sent from my Android phone.

  6. #50
    Member Array skilled's Avatar
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    Here is the best answer I can give if you live in FL. Keep in mind that the display of a firearm “is” the use of non-deadly force. With that being said you are A LOT more legally “safe” if a weapon is presented in a forcible felony situation. Because it’s the ONLY time you can use deadly force. I don’t recommend it in a misdemeanor situation. So question is..is the use of non-deadly force in a misdemeanor situation reasonable? Well in FL there is NO case law that resolves this issue. Unless you want to be the first test case,,,,Don’t do it!

  7. #51
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    If I draw my weapon it will be because I believe I am about to be seriously injured or killed. Not to scare, intimidate or warn. I will deploy that weapon to stop the threat to my life and for no other reason.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  8. #52
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Thank you Thumper. Imminent danger--you will know it when you see it and act accordingly--period/end of story. If you are going to continually discuss this further and put holes in it and are not sure what is or when is it "imminent danger", you are probably better off not CC. Somewhere I read a forum thread discussing your ability to actually shoot someone--same reply as above, IMO. If you are questioning your ability to actually shoot and kill someone, when in imminent danger, kindly explain to me why in heavens name are you carrying a firearm?

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    The answer does not rests in Websters definition of brandish. The only correct answer is to get a good lawyer who is know for his knowledge of gun laws in YOUR state and then pose that question to him. Best find out how his record is getting people off of gun related charges. Do not ever try to use a dictionary to justify anything when it comes to the legal system.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrPastor View Post
    I think the answer rests in the definition of "brandish": transitive verb
    1: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
    2: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

    To brandish is not to defend or to ward off an aggressor. It is true; do not pull your weapon unprepared to use it, but if the threat of use reverses the aggressor, deadly force is no longer deemed appropriate, albeit one would probably prevail if one did fire, as the threat did exsist. No doubt it would be a split second decision, and it should be reported right away, as the previous writer indicated, so you get the report right first!

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I hope you got another instructor! First, it was stupid to tell you that. Second, if he was behind his car where was any possible danger? If he wants to be LEO then he needs to get a badge. That in of itself is a stupid juvinile thing to do which could have escalated the situation. I can see the lawyers now if it escalted and he had to fire.
    Lawyer: was he coming toward you?
    Idiot: No
    Lawer: Were you ever in a position where you felt imment threat to your life or others?
    Idiot: No
    Lawyer: Where were you when you decided to point the laser at the victim?
    Idiot: behind my car where I had ample oppurtunity to get in and drive away
    Lawyer: Did you realize that the victim has multiple mental disorders including PTSD but has never been a threat to anyone before
    Idiot: No, did not occur to me
    Lawyer: So, you decide to point a laser in his direction at which point the victim correctly guessed that was attatched to a gun so he attacked you feeling his life was in imment danger.
    Idiot: But I am a fire arms instructer and I teach my students to mess with people
    Lawyer: Have a good time in jail, enjoy the civil lawsuit, and say good bye to your family and money for a few years for being an IDIOT
    Quote Originally Posted by maat View Post
    My instructor told our class of a time when he was outside a mall. He said there was an irate man yelling at people. While he was walking to his car, the man turned his attention to him so he wiggled his infrared sights(from behind his car where the man could not see his gun but could see the dot) on the ground in front of the man, in which he immediatly backed down.

  11. #55
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
    So long as I or someone for whom I am responsible is not in immediate threat of death or serious bodily harm, then I'm running. A BG chasing after me with a knife makes an affirmative defense of "self defense" more defensible (wow...did I use enough variations of the word "defend" in that sentence?!)

    I wouldn't turn and run if the BG has a gun pointed at me with his finger on the trigger. Actually, I don't know what I would do in that situation.

    But if he's pointing a knife or other close quarters weapon at me, I'm getting my ass out of dodge.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    If a bad guy pulls a knife on me I'm sure as Hell not going to turn and run. He might be faster than me. No, when a knife comes in to play then so does my gun and I'm not giving verbal commands. I'm pulling the trigger until the knife is on the ground with the bad guy.

  12. #56
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Thank you Thumper. Imminent danger--you will know it when you see it and act accordingly--period/end of story. If you are going to continually discuss this further and put holes in it and are not sure what is or when is it "imminent danger", you are probably better off not CC. Somewhere I read a forum thread discussing your ability to actually shoot someone--same reply as above, IMO. If you are questioning your ability to actually shoot and kill someone, when in imminent danger, kindly explain to me why in heavens name are you carrying a firearm?
    I need to step in for a moment and say something. When people are on sites like this they are looking for answers for “what if “ or “they are “ and are not looking to be chastised for their option because YOU feel different. Would YOU do different; and you would but everyone would!
    To question someone’s right to CC because YOU feel like they don’t make the right decision. It would be more helpful if your help them to assess the situation better and make a proper decision.

  13. #57
    Member Array Speculator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maat View Post
    My instructor told our class of a time when he was outside a mall. He said there was an irate man yelling at people. While he was walking to his car, the man turned his attention to him so he wiggled his infrared sights(from behind his car where the man could not see his gun but could see the dot) on the ground in front of the man, in which he immediatly backed down.
    I've considered carrying a laser pointer (in addition to my holstered firearm) for just that reason. You have to exercise great care, because there are ramifications, but pistol-mounted lasers are fairly common and I don't think a BG is going to discern which you have. It would be like using a tactical flashlight and as far as I understand it, as long as you don't shine it in the eyes of a pilot or a motorist, you are not breaking any laws to use it as a non-lethal deterrent. At least you would not be at risk of losing your pistol permit. In fact if you carry a laser pointer you could use either it or the pistol mounted one (or both!) if it's dark and then employ a plausible defense without unduly risking brandishing allegations.

  14. #58
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speculator View Post
    as far as I understand it, as long as you don't shine it in the eyes of a pilot or a motorist, you are not breaking any laws to use it as a non-lethal deterrent. At least you would not be at risk of losing your pistol permit. In fact if you carry a laser pointer you could use either it or the pistol mounted one (or both!) if it's dark and then employ a plausible defense without unduly risking brandishing allegations.
    If you have a laser mounted as an aiming device on your sidearm, if you point it at someone to "scare them off", you are also pointing your firearm at them. That is NOT non-lethal. If you doing so to try to disguise the fact you have it attached to a firearm, what do you think a judge or jury would conclude?

    It would be one offense if you simply painted a guy with a laser pointer (I have one for presentations). I think having it attached as a pointing device on your sidearm is another. IANAL.

    Carrying around a laser pointer to scare off miscreants? Not for me.

    I have to agree that the firearms instructor doesn't seem qualified for the job if that's the kind of judgment he exercises with his personal firearm.

  15. #59
    Member Array maat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    If you have a laser mounted as an aiming device on your sidearm, if you point it at someone to "scare them off", you are also pointing your firearm at them. That is NOT non-lethal. If you doing so to try to disguise the fact you have it attached to a firearm, what do you think a judge or jury would conclude?

    It would be one offense if you simply painted a guy with a laser pointer (I have one for presentations). I think having it attached as a pointing device on your sidearm is another. IANAL.

    Carrying around a laser pointer to scare off miscreants? Not for me.

    I have to agree that the firearms instructor doesn't seem qualified for the job if that's the kind of judgment he exercises with his personal firearm.
    The instructor was with his family and did not want the perp to come closer. He did not point the gun at the man and did not say anything to the man.

    Whether or not it was wise in general, it accomplished exactly what he meant for it to accomplish. I'm quite sure he would not do the same thing while there are others around. IMO, people are making too big a deal out of cautious brandishing. It is one thing to use it as a power manipulation and another to use it as a reasonable deterrent.

    Personally, I would do the same if I felt it to be a good option to end a situation. There is brandishing in self-defense. Here is a lawyers opinion.

    Brandishing a Weapon, Gun or Firearm | California Penal Code 417 PC

  16. #60
    Distinguished Member Array OhioCatter's Avatar
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    First of all if my lifes not in danger i'm gonna him in the head then him on the head. If my lifes not in danger i'm not even gonna let him know I have a gun and tell him take a hike before he gets another .

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