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Safety Product: Loading Gun: Have ND into Your GunBag Not Thru Floor To Downstairs

3K views 30 replies 21 participants last post by  walleye 
#1 · (Edited)
Thought of this for me since I live above another person: it's a ballistic bullet trap - or a pistol case or pistol gunbag with bullet trap so CCWs can have a "safe" ND while loading or unloading their weapons. Read about this in Guns & Ammo and went to site.

safe direction gun handling safety and training products

I've given the link to Ayoob shooting into the barrier bullet-trap. Go to "HOME" to find products and prices (Expensive! Yet, if it saves your life or others.......?)

What's your feedback on these products far as being worth the price, especially for gunbag which I would be interested in since I take multiple guns + ammo etc. to range? ($310)

Thanks
 
#3 ·
Well, the article in Guns & Ammo went thru usual reason for NDs - NOT doing standard SOP because of inattention, mistake, whatever. So, this is not for SOP but for accidents, on premise (of article) that "accidents happen - that's why they're accidents, we're human" etc., etc.

Still, I know that's true but - the Price!
 
#4 ·
A solution looking for a problem. If you can't keep your finger off the trigger or your gun discharges when loading, you've got other problems. The ND is merely a self-correcting exercise.
 
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#5 ·
Yes I know that but there are NDs and most who have them always say afterwards: "never thought I'd be the one" etc., etc. In other words, lapse once in many years of safe-handling; And I know most accidents happen during loading, unloading...

Playing the devil's advocate here: can't really say myself this is a realistic tool or over-priced extra. I think the price will answer the question for me. Donald Trump I'm not.
 
#6 ·
This product is not what I thought it was when I opened the thread. This product is just a high tech version of the old sand bucket you find used for safety when putting a round in the chamber of semi-autos. In case of a round going off because of a high primer was what I was told.

A local military base I know of uses firing buckets for security guards uses when loading their weapons. Myself I would rather use the sand bucket. As it is I just normally step out back when loading one in the chamber on my 1911.

Michael
 
#30 ·
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A local military base I know of uses firing buckets for security guards uses when loading their weapons. Myself I would rather use the sand bucket. As it is I just normally step out back when loading one in the chamber on my 1911.

Michael
This is what we did. I was Air Force security police. We had clearing barrels. When you got your weapon you dry fired into the barrel and inserted the magazine. After shift you removed the magazine and again dry fired into the clearing barrel before handing it back to the armory. We carried condition 3.
 
#9 ·
Hey walleye: If nothing else, the repliers to your thread were all right on and their comments made me nod my head in total agreement as they read their words. As they say---"guns do not kill people, people kill people"---likewise, "guns do not have accidents, people have accidents"---if you are stupid enough to have a discharge thru a floor while doing anything with your gun, no amount of expensive safety crap will help you, unless you consider the confiscation of said gun.
 
#10 ·
The idea here is that some guns require you to pull the trigger as part of the disassembly/reassembly process. So "keep your finger off the trigger" isn't going to be happening, should you own such a weapon.

And, if the gun in question doesn't have a loaded-chamber indicator, then there's a risk of a ND should the owner be careless, confused, distracted, drunk, forgetful, absent-minded, or a member of the chamber of commerce.

My concern is with people who actually do need devices like this, or sand buckets, operating on the assumption that one of these days, why, whoopsie-daisy! There was a bullet in there! Surprise, surprise.

Rule number 1 of firearm safety is to assume all guns are loaded until proven otherwise. If you cannot prove to yourself that a semi-automatic handgun is empty other than by pulling the trigger, you should probably switch to revolvers.

Now, if we're talking about someone who works in a gun shop, who handles dozens of different guns every day, I can see how having a sand bucket around might be a good idea, just for extra safety.
 
#11 ·
Your handgun is just a tool made out of steel or steel and plastic. parts do break and wear out like any other tool that you have. How many people get hurt from power tools that just do not function properly like they are supposed to. like a nail gun that is not supposed to fire without it being pressed against a piece of wood but they do sometimes. If it's mechanical it can malfunction. I have witnessed people with semi automatics chambering the first round releasing the slide and the gun goes bang it does happen. Anybody who believes that it is impossible for your weapon to discharge without putting your finger on the trigger is an accident waiting to happen. We do not always have a safe place to chamber so anything that can be done to make a safer environment for a gun that malfunctions is just plain common sense and respect for your firearms yes they are designed so it is not supposed to happen,but like so many other things that are not supposed to happen but they do
 
#12 ·
Hey jdp: You have "witnessed people who have semi automatics chambering the first round releasing the slide and the gun goes bang"----Methinks there is a little creative authorship in your statement; something else is going on if this is the case. So, if I am to understand your comments, EVERYTIME I am near a gun and a cartridge that is going into the gun, I should be sure I am facing a bucket of sand. Regardless of the possibility I do agree with you that the "gun is always loaded" period/end of story and never is pointed anywhere that is different from when you want to discharge same--and that includes chambering/loading the gun and even the magazine.
 
#13 ·
Hey kelcarry A close friend of mine who recently passed away had a hole in his floor to prove it he thought he made an error so he took it outside and it did it again for some reason the filing pin was not retracting after it was dry fired previously with his Springfield 1911 it turned out the tolerance in the hole was too small and when it was dry fired the firing pin would travel a little further then it would if it was a cartridge chambered causing it to stick it was sent back and problem fixed .The other time I witnessed this was at the firing range in Paris. Island in 1969 and M 14 never found out why that did that it was taken off line immediately and another reissue
 
#14 ·
Those who say an unintended discharge of a handgun is always the handler's fault are wrong, and I can prove it. There can be, and have been, design defects which can cause, and have caused, an unintended discharge, sometimes with tragic consequences. This has happened with guns that were out in the general populace for years before the problems were discovered and corrected.

For example, I carried a US made (S&W) Walther PPK/S every day for several years that had a design driven defect which manifested itself as an unintended discharge happening when the decocker was moved from fire to safe while lowering the hammer. It never happened to me thank goodness, and Walther recalled and fixed them, but with my gun being in the critical serial number range it was pure luck that it didn't go off. I can't tell you how many times I racked the slide to load the chamber and then lowered the hammer using the decocker, which is exactly what it is for. Lowering the hammer any other way on that pistol, like by pulling the trigger and trying to lower it with your thumb, is unsafe practice. I may have been saved by the fact that I usually loaded, unloaded, and cleared the gun with the decocker in the safe position which met the hammer followed the slide forward. But it definitely could have happened.

If it can happen with a design as old as the Walther PPK series (production began in Germany in 1931 - S&W unknowingly manufacturered defective pistols for ~6 years), it can happen to any manufacturer. On that basis, the odds are that there are almost certainly more defects that can result in an unplanned discharge that haven't been discovered ... yet.

So, despite all the claims that ND's only happen to stooooooopid people and the guns are never, ever, at fault this condition is proof there may be ways for an unplanned discharge to happen even to a person paying very close attention to what they are doing if the gun has a built in defect the manufacturer hasn't announced yet. As in this example, the existence of the gun in the market for years is no guarantee that can't happen. I said "unplanned" on purpose because something like the US Made Walther design defect causing a discharge isn't a Negligent Discharge. There was no negligence on the part of the owner/handler, the gun discharged when it shouldn't have through no fault of the handler who was following proper procedure. This reemphasizes that muzzle control is important because if proper muzzle control is practiced and an unplanned discharge happens it will minimize the chance for personal injury or death.

Which brings me to my point.

What is under discussion here is the concept of a portable "guaranteed safe" place to point the muzzle while loading, unloading, or clearing the pistol. It doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me.

A 5 gallon bucket of sand with a normal plastic cover on it ought to do a decent job of stopping most handgun bullets but I've never tried it. I may do that just to see if it will. If it does I may put one in an out of the way place in my closet to use as a "bullet bucket". I've been lucky so far, but "luck" isn't a plan.

Fitch
 
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#15 · (Edited)
Interesting responses. When it comes to just the barrier itself that this company makes, it does make sense if you accept the premise that the mere fact that accidents happen means they can happen - and if they can happen they can happen to you. I buy that. Sort of like bullet-proof glass at the range. In theory it shouldn't be needed but there's a big shatter mark in one of the ones at my range, until replaced - and I know the fellow who it happened with. His son. (No injury but a little higher.... a real BAD one).


I'd probably get the "barrier" if I was involved in loading at home frequently, but like I said: I'd forgotten when posting that now I usually just put a loaded CCW in the safe and take it out again when I want to Carry it again. I used to load/unload more when I carried a 1911 but found a gun I feel more comfortable with (Beretta 92FS) + one of two snubs I carry on occasion. So, until and if that changes I'll hold off.

I think it's good the product is out there.
 
#16 ·
Solution in search of a problem? Maybe there is a valid purpose to this; albeit it's a small market.

Consider the person who travels a lot, especially by air, and stays in hotels. That person will have to load/unload their gun at every stopover. In a hotel room, what direction is a safe direction to point the weapon?
 
#17 ·
The idea is good. A bucket of sand works too. I wouldn't get one, but I don't have a bucket of sand, either. None of my guns require firing the trigger to disassemble.

I can see someone in an apartment getting the pad to protect downstairs neighbors, but $310 for the range bag is too much.

I only have one neighbor close by, and lots of directions with no one within miles.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Yeah, $310 for the ballistic pad attached to a gun-bag is over the top - if I found I was loading and unloading a lot, above another person's residence like I am now , I'd just get the pad. Think that was $175 - then stick with my own bag or buy a cheaper one. And the bucket of sand is also an option.

As far as the safety aspect: no one can read the future - say for sure they always will be paying acute attention or that the gun will be perfect in operation -

There a lot of people with a statistically small chance of dying tonight who will wake up dead tomorrow.
 
#20 ·
I won't in any way disparage a safety product. Maybe I've just lived too long and seen or heard about way too many ND's from very experienced shooters. They all thought, "It would never happen to me." Maybe it truly was the gun's fault. What's the difference?

At home I use a sand filled, plastic, gallon milk jug with a screw on cap and built in handle which can be set anywhere. On the road I use a thin, hard shell briefcase that contains a dense, hard foam in front of a steel plate. If you have more money than imagination, the Safe Direction bag is perfect.
 
#24 · (Edited)
I won't in any way disparage a safety product. Maybe I've just lived too long and seen or heard about way too many ND's from very experienced shooters. They all thought, "It would never happen to me." Maybe it truly was the gun's fault. What's the difference?

At home I use a sand filled, plastic, gallon milk jug with a screw on cap and built in handle which can be set anywhere. On the road I use a thin, hard shell briefcase that contains a dense, hard foam in front of a steel plate. If you have more money than imagination, the Safe Direction bag is perfect.
This is what I do not understand about this thread. I consider myself very knowledgeable about weapon and I still go outside to the garden when putting a round in the chamber. Have I ever had one go off when doing it? No I never have. I have had slamfires in other weapons though. So it makes me aware.
Why should I be ridiculed for taking precautions just in case? Now if we wish to ridicule someone spending that kind of money instead of just filling a bucket with bone dry sand that a whole different subject.

I would say the chances of a round going off when in the process of chambering it in a auto is probably greater than the chances that a large group of armed gang bangers come charging through my front door.
That does not stop me from arming myself just in case.

Michael
 
#21 ·
If you needed something for an apartment or some such living arangement you could just as easily use a sandbag or a foot thick bundle of old magazines (the reading kind) or books wrapped with duct tape. For a lot less than $300 bucks you can get an old vest panel from bulletproofme dot com and fit it about anywhere.
 
#22 ·
possibly the same individuals who want a 'safe' gun and so reasons that unchambered renders the gun 'safer' will
find this item similarly soothing.

but not so much for the great majority who have read the guns manual. understand how it works; with emphasis on the
mechanics of the built in safeties. and practice using the most important safety of all when handling a gun--their mind.
 
#25 ·
That's all good practice, no argument about that, but none of it (other than muzzle control) protects you from a defect (stuck firing pin for example) or a latent defect (like the Walther PPJK had) in the gun that can cause it to fire when the slide goes forward. Everything you write about assumes the gun is perfect and won't fire unless the trigger is pulled. Almost everybody assumes that but it isn't 100% true. Granted it isn't a high probability, but there is a greater than zero chance that the gun has a defect that could cause it to fire even if all best practices are followed by a perfectly trained and attentive handler. It's happened before and it will happen again. The 5 gallon bucket full of sand like dukalmighty describes is cheap insurance that if it does happen, the worst outcome will be a loud noise and maybe a little sand to sweep up.

Fitch
 
#23 ·
If thats the case and you feel a need for a safety device,get a 5 gallon bucket of saand,on the cover cut out an opening to attach a short length of 2" pvc pipe,angle bucket at 45 degree angle so barrel of weapon will be aimed at center,and then use to clear weapons,cost is under 10 bucks
 
#27 ·
And, if the gun in question doesn't have a loaded-chamber indicator, then there's a risk of a ND should the owner be careless, confused, distracted, drunk, forgetful, absent-minded, or a member of the chamber of commerce
Seems to me in most of those cases, just about any safety device won't work. If the brain isn't working, safety is moot.
 
#28 ·
Thanks OP for posting the topic. While I've been shooting for over 35 years, I never have heard of or considered a slam fire. I'm always cautious chambering a round in a semi auto, must've been intuition since I now understand there could be a rare mechanical malfunction. Bucket o' sand sounds like a good idea vs bouncing a round off the cinder block in the garage.
 
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