Safety Product: Loading Gun: Have ND into Your GunBag Not Thru Floor To Downstairs

This is a discussion on Safety Product: Loading Gun: Have ND into Your GunBag Not Thru Floor To Downstairs within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Thought of this for me since I live above another person: it's a ballistic bullet trap - or a pistol case or pistol gunbag with ...

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Thread: Safety Product: Loading Gun: Have ND into Your GunBag Not Thru Floor To Downstairs

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Safety Product: Loading Gun: Have ND into Your GunBag Not Thru Floor To Downstairs

    Thought of this for me since I live above another person: it's a ballistic bullet trap - or a pistol case or pistol gunbag with bullet trap so CCWs can have a "safe" ND while loading or unloading their weapons. Read about this in Guns & Ammo and went to site.

    safe direction gun handling safety and training products

    I've given the link to Ayoob shooting into the barrier bullet-trap. Go to "HOME" to find products and prices (Expensive! Yet, if it saves your life or others.......?)

    What's your feedback on these products far as being worth the price, especially for gunbag which I would be interested in since I take multiple guns + ammo etc. to range? ($310)

    Thanks
    Last edited by walleye; December 20th, 2011 at 01:25 AM.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    Um....a "safe" ND??? Why not just keep your finger off of the boom switch when loading/unloading weapons?? I'm not trying to be mean I'm just saying

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    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpencerB View Post
    Um....a "safe" ND??? Why not just keep your finger off of the boom switch when loading/unloading weapons?? I'm not trying to be mean I'm just saying
    Well, the article in Guns & Ammo went thru usual reason for NDs - NOT doing standard SOP because of inattention, mistake, whatever. So, this is not for SOP but for accidents, on premise (of article) that "accidents happen - that's why they're accidents, we're human" etc., etc.

    Still, I know that's true but - the Price!

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    A solution looking for a problem. If you can't keep your finger off the trigger or your gun discharges when loading, you've got other problems. The ND is merely a self-correcting exercise.
    Majorlk likes this.
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    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    A solution looking for a problem. If you can't keep your finger off the trigger or your gun discharges when loading, you've got other problems. The ND is merely a self-correcting exercise.
    Yes I know that but there are NDs and most who have them always say afterwards: "never thought I'd be the one" etc., etc. In other words, lapse once in many years of safe-handling; And I know most accidents happen during loading, unloading...

    Playing the devil's advocate here: can't really say myself this is a realistic tool or over-priced extra. I think the price will answer the question for me. Donald Trump I'm not.

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    This product is not what I thought it was when I opened the thread. This product is just a high tech version of the old sand bucket you find used for safety when putting a round in the chamber of semi-autos. In case of a round going off because of a high primer was what I was told.

    A local military base I know of uses firing buckets for security guards uses when loading their weapons. Myself I would rather use the sand bucket. As it is I just normally step out back when loading one in the chamber on my 1911.

    Michael
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  8. #7
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    I just realized - I don't need such a product anyway - my CCWs go loaded into my safe. I take one out and holster it. Hardly any loading/unloading to begin with.

    I couldn't have afforded those products anyway.

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    Member Array vista461's Avatar
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    If the person isn't paying enough attention to keep their finger off the trigger, are they going to get their bulletproof pad?
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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Hey walleye: If nothing else, the repliers to your thread were all right on and their comments made me nod my head in total agreement as they read their words. As they say---"guns do not kill people, people kill people"---likewise, "guns do not have accidents, people have accidents"---if you are stupid enough to have a discharge thru a floor while doing anything with your gun, no amount of expensive safety crap will help you, unless you consider the confiscation of said gun.

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    The idea here is that some guns require you to pull the trigger as part of the disassembly/reassembly process. So "keep your finger off the trigger" isn't going to be happening, should you own such a weapon.

    And, if the gun in question doesn't have a loaded-chamber indicator, then there's a risk of a ND should the owner be careless, confused, distracted, drunk, forgetful, absent-minded, or a member of the chamber of commerce.

    My concern is with people who actually do need devices like this, or sand buckets, operating on the assumption that one of these days, why, whoopsie-daisy! There was a bullet in there! Surprise, surprise.

    Rule number 1 of firearm safety is to assume all guns are loaded until proven otherwise. If you cannot prove to yourself that a semi-automatic handgun is empty other than by pulling the trigger, you should probably switch to revolvers.

    Now, if we're talking about someone who works in a gun shop, who handles dozens of different guns every day, I can see how having a sand bucket around might be a good idea, just for extra safety.
    oakchas likes this.
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    Member Array Jdp751's Avatar
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    Your handgun is just a tool made out of steel or steel and plastic. parts do break and wear out like any other tool that you have. How many people get hurt from power tools that just do not function properly like they are supposed to. like a nail gun that is not supposed to fire without it being pressed against a piece of wood but they do sometimes. If it's mechanical it can malfunction. I have witnessed people with semi automatics chambering the first round releasing the slide and the gun goes bang it does happen. Anybody who believes that it is impossible for your weapon to discharge without putting your finger on the trigger is an accident waiting to happen. We do not always have a safe place to chamber so anything that can be done to make a safer environment for a gun that malfunctions is just plain common sense and respect for your firearms yes they are designed so it is not supposed to happen,but like so many other things that are not supposed to happen but they do
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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Hey jdp: You have "witnessed people who have semi automatics chambering the first round releasing the slide and the gun goes bang"----Methinks there is a little creative authorship in your statement; something else is going on if this is the case. So, if I am to understand your comments, EVERYTIME I am near a gun and a cartridge that is going into the gun, I should be sure I am facing a bucket of sand. Regardless of the possibility I do agree with you that the "gun is always loaded" period/end of story and never is pointed anywhere that is different from when you want to discharge same--and that includes chambering/loading the gun and even the magazine.

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    Member Array Jdp751's Avatar
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    Hey kelcarry A close friend of mine who recently passed away had a hole in his floor to prove it he thought he made an error so he took it outside and it did it again for some reason the filing pin was not retracting after it was dry fired previously with his Springfield 1911 it turned out the tolerance in the hole was too small and when it was dry fired the firing pin would travel a little further then it would if it was a cartridge chambered causing it to stick it was sent back and problem fixed .The other time I witnessed this was at the firing range in Paris. Island in 1969 and M 14 never found out why that did that it was taken off line immediately and another reissue

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    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Those who say an unintended discharge of a handgun is always the handler's fault are wrong, and I can prove it. There can be, and have been, design defects which can cause, and have caused, an unintended discharge, sometimes with tragic consequences. This has happened with guns that were out in the general populace for years before the problems were discovered and corrected.

    For example, I carried a US made (S&W) Walther PPK/S every day for several years that had a design driven defect which manifested itself as an unintended discharge happening when the decocker was moved from fire to safe while lowering the hammer. It never happened to me thank goodness, and Walther recalled and fixed them, but with my gun being in the critical serial number range it was pure luck that it didn't go off. I can't tell you how many times I racked the slide to load the chamber and then lowered the hammer using the decocker, which is exactly what it is for. Lowering the hammer any other way on that pistol, like by pulling the trigger and trying to lower it with your thumb, is unsafe practice. I may have been saved by the fact that I usually loaded, unloaded, and cleared the gun with the decocker in the safe position which met the hammer followed the slide forward. But it definitely could have happened.

    If it can happen with a design as old as the Walther PPK series (production began in Germany in 1931 - S&W unknowingly manufacturered defective pistols for ~6 years), it can happen to any manufacturer. On that basis, the odds are that there are almost certainly more defects that can result in an unplanned discharge that haven't been discovered ... yet.

    So, despite all the claims that ND's only happen to stooooooopid people and the guns are never, ever, at fault this condition is proof there may be ways for an unplanned discharge to happen even to a person paying very close attention to what they are doing if the gun has a built in defect the manufacturer hasn't announced yet. As in this example, the existence of the gun in the market for years is no guarantee that can't happen. I said "unplanned" on purpose because something like the US Made Walther design defect causing a discharge isn't a Negligent Discharge. There was no negligence on the part of the owner/handler, the gun discharged when it shouldn't have through no fault of the handler who was following proper procedure. This reemphasizes that muzzle control is important because if proper muzzle control is practiced and an unplanned discharge happens it will minimize the chance for personal injury or death.

    Which brings me to my point.

    What is under discussion here is the concept of a portable "guaranteed safe" place to point the muzzle while loading, unloading, or clearing the pistol. It doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me.

    A 5 gallon bucket of sand with a normal plastic cover on it ought to do a decent job of stopping most handgun bullets but I've never tried it. I may do that just to see if it will. If it does I may put one in an out of the way place in my closet to use as a "bullet bucket". I've been lucky so far, but "luck" isn't a plan.

    Fitch
    walleye likes this.
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    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Interesting responses. When it comes to just the barrier itself that this company makes, it does make sense if you accept the premise that the mere fact that accidents happen means they can happen - and if they can happen they can happen to you. I buy that. Sort of like bullet-proof glass at the range. In theory it shouldn't be needed but there's a big shatter mark in one of the ones at my range, until replaced - and I know the fellow who it happened with. His son. (No injury but a little higher.... a real BAD one).


    I'd probably get the "barrier" if I was involved in loading at home frequently, but like I said: I'd forgotten when posting that now I usually just put a loaded CCW in the safe and take it out again when I want to Carry it again. I used to load/unload more when I carried a 1911 but found a gun I feel more comfortable with (Beretta 92FS) + one of two snubs I carry on occasion. So, until and if that changes I'll hold off.

    I think it's good the product is out there.
    Last edited by walleye; December 19th, 2011 at 07:17 PM.

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