Confronted by LEO while carrying

This is a discussion on Confronted by LEO while carrying within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I know the issue of "telling" versus "not telling" when confronted by LEO has been discussed at great length in other threads, so I apologize ...

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Thread: Confronted by LEO while carrying

  1. #1
    Member Array DocPMD's Avatar
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    Confronted by LEO while carrying

    I know the issue of "telling" versus "not telling" when confronted by LEO has been discussed at great length in other threads, so I apologize in advance if you feel that this is a dead horse. But I am a bit confused.

    I picked up my CCW permit today from the Police Dept. (Denver, CO) and just got around to taking a closer look at the ID card. This is what it says on the back:


    1. If contacted by law enforcement advise the officer you are in possession of a CCW permit and firearm

    2. Advise the officer where the firearm is located

    Do not reach for the weapon

    Do not move your clothing or show the weapon

    3. If the officer determines that he/she must temporarily relieve you of your weapon, comply with their request


    It makes sense to follow what is said on the card, right? But the only thing on that list that is actually in the statute is #3. The statute doesn't say anything about a duty to inform LEO about carrying.

    I'm glad the instructions are on the card because now there is no doubt how I need to respond in the event of contact with LEO. But I can't say that I agree with it, especially since there is nothing in the statutes that require it.

    Thoughts and opinions?
    Doc

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  3. #2
    Member Array Eichorn's Avatar
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    I've never had to do this, so I can't draw from experience, however when I took the Basic Pistol course in order to apply for my CCW permit, my instructor said a very similar thing. I believe he said that if we were pulled over by a LEO, to hand them our license and our CCW permit at the same time. My understanding was that it was a good idea to show the LEO that you had a CCW permit and inform them you were carrying (if they asked), in case they caught sight of your firearm.

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    You got to have enough sense to know the difference between advice and law- and then apply the same to your situation.
    BkCo1, SR40c, Hotbrass and 1 others like this.
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    By putting those instructions on the permit, it gives them the appearance of being the law. And as the OP points out, all but one of them are not.

    That's wrong! If I was a CO resident, I'd point that out to the DMV or whatever other agency is responsible for the content of the permit.
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    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocPMD View Post
    I know the issue of "telling" versus "not telling" when confronted by LEO has been discussed at great length in other threads, so I apologize in advance if you feel that this is a dead horse. But I am a bit confused.

    I picked up my CCW permit today from the Police Dept. (Denver, CO) and just got around to taking a closer look at the ID card. This is what it says on the back:

    1. If contacted by law enforcement advise the officer you are in possession of a CCW permit and firearm

    2. Advise the officer where the firearm is located

    Do not reach for the weapon

    Do not move your clothing or show the weapon

    3. If the officer determines that he/she must temporarily relieve you of your weapon, comply with their request


    It makes sense to follow what is said on the card, right? But the only thing on that list that is actually in the statute is #3. The statute doesn't say anything about a duty to inform LEO about carrying.

    I'm glad the instructions are on the card because now there is no doubt how I need to respond in the event of contact with LEO. But I can't say that I agree with it, especially since there is nothing in the statutes that require it.

    Thoughts and opinions?
    Doc
    Well, according to handgunlaw.us (Gary Slider), Colorado does not require those that carry to notify officers who stop you. That being said, many will advise you to do so anyway, but there are also many who think doing so is somewhat of a bad idea if it isn't required. Personally I always do notify as it is required in Oklahoma and Texas, and I have ALWAYS had good results doing so (including no ticket many times -- in fact I cannot remember the last time I actually got a ticket!). But in many big cities including Denver, I think I would opt to NOT notify if possible.
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

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    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    I have only been stopped in Texas on vacation once carrying once not. I have and will inform reguardless if the law requires it. Have not received a summoms in a LONG time. Hope to keep it that way.

    The second time was on Sept 10, 2011. I was traveling home from Texas on 9-11 so I did not know what was going to happen if anything. So I was not carrying. I was pulled over by Irving PD. I explained I was on my to the airport to drop off my two friends and then taking the CWP class at DFW range. I told the officer I was not carrying at the time. He rans my DL and walked back to the vehicle. My friend in the back was wearing Oakland NJ fire deaprtment shirt. You in the FD or just wearing buff shirt? They both replied "We are both in the FD. Next thing the officer said "you know as a CWP person I expect you to slow down next time". Yes,sir. Were were on our way.

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    Distinguished Member Array REVMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post
    By putting those instructions on the permit, it gives them the appearance of being the law. And as the OP points out, all but one of them are not.

    That's wrong! If I was a CO resident, I'd point that out to the DMV or whatever other agency is responsible for the content of the permit.
    I agree....if it's not the law it should not be posted on the permit in that manner. Seems to me they are trying to make it uncertain on purpose. "Advice" should not be posted on a permit. IMO

    By the way....SC is a must inform state and I always inform no matter where I'm at.
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    New Member Array Slygrin's Avatar
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    Here in Washington we have to show the permit when asked. My personal rule is, if the LEO is not going to see the gun, I don't volunteer I have it. Just to not cause any added anxiety. If he's likely to see the gun I will tell him before he does. For example, if I'm pulled over for speeding, I will not tell him. If he asks me to get out of the vehicle I will tell him I have the gun and permit before I get out. I've only been asked once, they didn't ask to see my permit or the gun, just that I didn't reach for it.
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    Member Array CaptSmith's Avatar
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    pretty obvious what the police in Colorado want, and apparently the "CCW" licence/training industry also, thier "spin" on the law and how you conduct yourself is respectful of LEO's and is the law in many states for that reason...check the law and conduct yourself in a lawfull manner always...

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    Member Array DocPMD's Avatar
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    I should have added that, in Colorado, the Sheriff who issues the permit has the option to enter the names of CCW permit holders into the statewide criminal database. For the most part they all do it.

    I don't want to sidetrack this thread into a discussion about the injustice of being treated like a common criminal just for getting a CCW permit - although it is a viable topic.

    I only mention it because chances are that LEO will already know about the CCW permit if they run the vehicles license on a traffic stop.

    Thanks,
    Doc

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    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocPMD View Post
    I should have added that, in Colorado, the Sheriff who issues the permit has the option to enter the names of CCW permit holders into the statewide criminal database. For the most part they all do it.

    I don't want to sidetrack this thread into a discussion about the injustice of being treated like a common criminal just for getting a CCW permit - although it is a viable topic.

    I only mention it because chances are that LEO will already know about the CCW permit if they run the vehicles license on a traffic stop.

    Thanks,
    Doc
    Im not a lawyer...In Michigan we have to inform. In general I think its a good idea to inform the officer. If they already know, I would rather err on the side of caution, then give the officer something to be pissed about.
    MotorCityGun and mel5051 like this.

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    While you must present your permit and a valid picture ID if asked for by a LEO, I could find nothing requiring it if not ask.

    I'm afraid I'd have to call the sheriff's office and ask for a reference requiring notification.
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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slygrin View Post
    Here in Washington we have to show the permit when asked. My personal rule is, if the LEO is not going to see the gun, I don't volunteer I have it. Just to not cause any added anxiety. If he's likely to see the gun I will tell him before he does. For example, if I'm pulled over for speeding, I will not tell him. If he asks me to get out of the vehicle I will tell him I have the gun and permit before I get out. I've only been asked once, they didn't ask to see my permit or the gun, just that I didn't reach for it.
    Hi, and welcome from another Washingtonian!

    I also never volunteer and in 4 stops, never an issue at all, never even mentioned and they see it when they run your plates. (and only 1 ticket...for expired reg when we had to pull a different car out on Easter cuz the Explorer wouldnt start.)
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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    DocPMD: My permit issued in Mesa County has no such instructions anywhere on the permit. You are not required by statute to inform in Colorado. I believe the statute just says that you must present your permit upon demand to a police officer. The wisdom or lack thereof of informing voluntarily is debateable. I personally did so the one and only time I had the occasion.

  16. #15
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    You're in Denver. Welcome to the Republic of the Darkside. You are correct, IIRC, there is no statutory requirement to advise in Colorado, and whether you do so, out of courtesy, is your decision. That topic (advising or not advising regardless of legal requirements) has been beaten senseless here too many times.

    Welcome.

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