August 19th, 2006 11:03 AM
Ditto what PT-111 said. (I carry one too).
I would like to add:
When practicing under simulated stress I found that OCCASIONALLY I would NOT get the gun off safety. Even though I quickly knew what had gone wrong when the trigger would not move, it still took me a couple of extra seconds to realize it, correct it, and fire.
I decided I might not always have extra time so I now carry my PT-111 (and other DA/DAO guns) with the safety off if they have one.
When I first started carrying, I carried with safety on because I was uncomfortable with it off. I am now completely comfortable carrying with the safety off. Just make sure the trigger guard is covered and that there is no way that trigger is coming back while in it's holster.
August 19th, 2006 02:56 PM
My understanding is that it is considered "safe" to carry a DOA pistol with the manual safety off, if it has one, several of them do not even have a manual safety. I however do not carry anything that does not have a manual safety and I always have the manual safety on. In my case, however, that is because I have a 3 1/2 year old running around and I want every possable chance to avoid that AD. As others have said, if you train with it it will become natural to swipe the safety when you need it.
August 19th, 2006 03:48 PM
Safety always comes first, no acceptions, if it comes with a safety use it.
Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....
August 19th, 2006 08:07 PM
i carry a glock and the safety is to keep the finger off the trigger. yes, i carry a round in the chamber.
August 20th, 2006 02:40 PM
+1 BlueLion Proper training should engage the safety between the ears. If you practice until you get it right, great. If you practice until you can't get it wrong, better.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
August 20th, 2006 03:41 PM
It depends on what your comfortable with and how you train. Since I carry primarily 1911s , and the safety on the Taurus is vertually in the same position on the 145, I use to have. When I carried my Taurus I carried it with the safety on. That's one of the reasons I bought it. Just train one way and carry it the same way always, and you should be fine.
If you choose to carry with No safety on ... that long trigger pull should be fine. (Of Course) the trigger pull is why I gave it up. Like I said I mainly carry 1911s and the trigger pull on the Taurus was no where near the 1911. It effected my double tapping, so I had to let her go. Great gun though. Now I want to try the new 24/7 Pro that is suppose to have a single action trigger pull. Maybe I'll like it better.
A LTTLE TRAINING IS A DANGEROUS THING ....
August 21st, 2006 12:06 AM
All my carry guns are DAO and no safeties other than my finger!
So, my holsters all cover the trigger and that meets my needs.
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.
August 21st, 2006 12:36 AM
Uh...that avatar you have doesn't look much like a Sig.
Originally Posted by AKsrule
Sig P229 .357/.40, G17, G19, G23, G27, Bushmaster XM-15, Ruger PC9 Carbine, Win. 1300 'Defender' 12 Ga. (among others)
"When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
October 2nd, 2006 11:42 PM
A pistol without one chambered is an expensive paper weight
Hk P2000, P30, P30L, Hk45C, USP Tac .45, USC, G36c
Glock 19, 26, 38
Sig P238, SP2022, P226 Blackwater Tacitcal,556
Desert Eagle Mark I, Mossberg 500A, Benelli M4
FN FS2000, Springfield SOCOM II
Daisy Red Ryder BB Gun
October 3rd, 2006 12:36 AM
AFAIC, with the exception of single-action autos (1911, HP, etc.), there is no need for murphy-levers...I mean, safety-devices.
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina
If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.
October 3rd, 2006 01:23 AM
I train with a Browning BDM. Lots of folks dislike it due to the decocker being the integral safety, and the fact that it's safety-up to fire (not 1911-style down). However, it: (a) is strange to perps, hence will be less likely to be used on me if I get stripped of it; and (b) is a non-issue for me, since I train with the draw being an all-in-one motion ... hand on butt, begin the draw, wait until muzzle clears holster, flip up the safety, front sight on target, finger on trigger. Do that a couple thousand times during no-ammo holstering drills and it will start to be part of your muscle memory.
Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
October 3rd, 2006 04:11 AM
Originally Posted by frankmako
I like the Glock safeties. Don't squeeze the trigger and it won't shoot.
When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle
October 3rd, 2006 07:31 AM
October 3rd, 2006 08:54 AM
My most frequent carry pistol is a Colt Commander in Condition One, so it's safety being on is part of the definition of "Condition One".
I train with that pistol mostly so sweeping the safety off during draw is now automatic, natural, and never hinders my "get on target" speed.
On the other hand, other pistols I carry occasionally include a Walther PP so it is carried with the chamber loaded, hammer down and safety off because it is a DA/SA pistol.
My two XD's are, of course, carried with the chamber loaded and the safety placed in the "doesn't need one so it doesn't have one" position.
In all of this discussion about modes of carry, NEVER forget that if you are serious about defensive carry, then anything that hampers, slows down, or confuses you during the draw can get you killed.
While some people might be wondering (while actually drawing to save their lives); "let's see, did I leave the chamber loaded?... is the safety on?... which way do I move the safety again?; I have several pistols so I forget", I like to KNOW that all I have to do on my one pistol with a safety (the Commander) is to sweep it down and pull the trigger.
On my other pistols, I KNOW that all I have to do is to pull the trigger.
So in general, all 1911 SA pistols and their variants should ALL be carried in Condition One (chamber loaded, hammer cocked, safety on).
For all DOA pistols and DA/SA pistols, they can all be carried with the chamber loaded, hammer down and safety off because the long and "hard" trigger pull of those pistols is plenty to keep them safe as long as you carry them in a good holster and train with the weapon that way.
I particularly like my XD's because as far as I know, they are the only pistols of their type that also have a grip safety similar to the 1911.
Note that the DA/SA pistols invariably have a safety that also serves as a "decocker", so pointing the pistol in a safe direction (like the cat) while activating the safety/decocker lever is how you get to the proper stage for carry. You then take the safety off and holster it.
On the other hand, you NEVER lower the hammer of a 1911 pistol onto a chambered cartridge for ANY reason. Period.
The only reason to take a 1911 out of Condition One is to unload it which is done by dropping the mag, take the safety off (while keeping your damn finger off the trigger!), and rack it a couple of times while visually inspecting that the round has ejected and that the chamber is empty.
Then and only then do you lower the hammer down onto an EMPTY chamber. Period.
Of course, ALL of that is done while pointing it in a safe direction (like the cat).
For some reason, I keep reading in different places where people want to carry the 1911 with chamber loaded but hammer down because they think it's "safer".
That's not an unsafe condition to carry it, but to get to that condition, you HAVE to lower the hammer onto a LOADED chamber which is what really, really, really stupid people do. So while carrying in Condition Two may be safe, what it takes to GET to Condition Two is anything BUT safe.
It's not a matter of "if" your thumb will slip off the hammer, it's a matter of "when" your thumb WILL slip off the hammer and drop it onto a loaded round.
Additionally, carrying in Condition Two (chamber loaded, hammer down) puts you at a disadvantage because cocking the hammer of a 1911 is not easy, graceful, nor fast if you HAVE to draw in a real-life defensive situation.
If you are thinking of carrying a 1911 in Condition Three (chamber empty, hammer down) then forget about ever winning the one gunfight that you will NEED to win. Anyone can outgun someone fumbling about with the racking of their weapon.
It's the people who choose to carry in Condition Two that are the ones who get on these forums and declare how "unsafe" the 1911 pistol is, and they would be absolutely right... if they are one of the stupid ones who think that lowering a hammer of a 1911 onto a loaded chamber is somehow OK to do once in a while.
Sorry for the 1911 rant, but there has been some bad advice regarding the handling and operation of 1911's on some of these forums and by pointing these things out, I hope to save at least one toe. The cat, I can't help you with.
For those interested in carrying a 1911, here's a link you might like to see:
Last edited by CDH; October 3rd, 2006 at 12:05 PM.
October 3rd, 2006 09:27 AM
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