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Planning on going to the International Sportsman's Expo at the Denver Convention Center this weekend. Have searched online, as I am a bit apprehensive about carrying in the Republic of Denver. It appears the Center is posted no guns (but carries no legal weight in CO). Anyone have any advice/insight? TIA
Are you sure about that? According to Handgunlaw.us, No Gun signs DO carry the weight of law in CO.Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainAir
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf
Colorado Revised Statutes 18.12.214...Quote:
Originally Posted by archer51
If you are caught and asked to leave, you must or be charged with trespassing. Nothing here states you will be charged with passing a sign.Quote:
(2) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.
(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:
(a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked;
(b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty;
(c) A permittee may carry a concealed handgun on undeveloped real property owned by a school district that is used for hunting or other shooting sports.
(4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:
(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;
(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and
(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.
(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.
That looks like a recent update to the CO status on the handgunlaw.us.
It has always been my understanding that CO gun banning signs were feel good only.
I've just poured through the statutes and I can not find anything about criminal charges as a result of carrying past a sign, or if the signs do carry the weight of law.
Even RMGO has nothing on it in general. Just two specific points. Employer = NO, Denver Zoo = Yes. Concealed Carry Permits - Gun Law FAQs - Rocky Mountain Gun Owners
Dudley Brown was a member here at one point, hopefully he will chime in soon.
^^ My understanding as well, and I will leave if asked to. Just trying to make sure there aren't metal detectors at entrances, and any Denver "gotchas" I should be specifically aware of. First foray CCing in Denver, have tried to check online, but figure you guys are more intelligible than court rulings.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticks
sidenote: I cannot understand gun sporting expos being held in anti's venue - like the gun show held in an anti venue :confused: I try to respect those gun buster signs and not give them my business, but sometimes concealed is concealed, and what they don't know wont hurt me.
I agree, but I also put a great deal of faith/trust in Gary's info on handgunlaw.us...that gave me pause.
I could be wrong! When I added the info on No Gun Signs I knew it was like going into a minefield. Every states laws are different. Some states have wording like CO and the signs have no force of law unless ask to leave. Other states have very similar wording and their signs do have the force of law. Now there is case law and everything else. There is also Trespass laws that are not found in the Gun laws. I have looked at my notes and can't find exactly why I put CO as They do have the force of law. I have 6 to 8 states listed as ?????? as I can't find out or find a law that states anything. Most of these are in may Issue states. But this is the first I have heard that someone disagreed with what I have on no gun signs in Colorado. Again I am not saying I am 100% correct and will look again but any help anyone else can give me in this matter would be greatly appreciated. No Gun Signs in sates that don't have specific Sign laws are very difficult to figure out. IF I did err I always did it on the side of caution. Again assistance would be appreciated.
OK I Found it. This is from the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners FAQ's at
Gun Law FAQs - Rocky Mountain Gun Owners
I should have had this on the CO Page in the Gun Sign Section. I will add it there. But again this is just a RKBA's group stating this also. This still does not make it 100% but like
I stated in my earlier post I will err on the side of caution.
Criminal Trespass
If I carry in a private business that bans, am I guilty of criminal trespass? Sometimes.
18-4-504 Third Degree Criminal Trespass
(1) A person commits the crime of third degree criminal trespass if such person unlawfully enters or remains in or upon premises of another.
(2) Third degree criminal trespass is a class 1 petty offense, but:
(a) It is a class 3 misdemeanor if the premises have been classified by the county assessor for the county in which the land is situated as agricultural land pursuant to section 39-1-102 (1.6), C.R.S.; and
(b) It is a class 5 felony if the person trespasses on premises so classified as agricultural land with the intent to commit a felony thereon.
Gary, I would say the best person to contact on the issue, short of a Colorado Criminal Lawyer, would be Dudley Brown over at RMGO.
I know I poured over the statutes way back when in the before time and that is one that I would have remembered. Then there is the "Public" buildings, and they have to be 100% with the wording of 18.12.1?? or .2?? regarding the screening and every entrance, means every entrance, even the super secret employee entrance, and 100% of people entering said building must be screened.
This might be one of those "up to responding officers discretion" as to who and what charges may be applied. Maybe they have some sort of statute calculator. 18.4.504 + 18.12.214 = Criminal trespass in possession of a legally concealed weapon with no intent. [/Sarcasm]
Sticks, you hit it right on the head. The responding officer. I think that is the reason the RMGO FAQ even states "Sometimes." The wording that always gets my attention is "Enter OR Remain" That or in there is the word that makes the difference. If it stated "Enter AND Remain" that it totally different. The one thing about the law I have found out in all these years is the little words mean as much as the big words. Just like Shall or May. The legal definitions are greatly different. But unless there was case law or a court ruling that stated it then there is still a huge gray area. They write laws gray so they can plug in the facts. If they write it to narrow then there are things that happen that they can't plug into the law and they can't charge a person. So the grayer the better. Then the courts rule to gray and it is thrown out.
Again I knew this was going to be very difficult to list the laws on Gun Signs. Mainly with the states that don't have a set law for them. Laws almost exclusively state what we can't do. If there is no law saying something is illegal then it is legal. So there would be no law stating No Gun Signs don't have the force of law. So we muddle on trying to figure things out.
Sticks, you hit it right on the head. The responding officer. I think that is the reason the RMGO FAQ even states "Sometimes." The wording that always gets my attention is "Enter OR Remain" That or in there is the word that makes the difference. If it stated "Enter AND Remain" that it totally different. The one thing about the law I have found out in all these years is the little words mean as much as the big words. Just like Shall or May. The legal definitions are greatly different. But unless there was case law or a court ruling that stated it then there is still a huge gray area. They write laws gray so they can plug in the facts. If they write it to narrow then there are things that happen that they can't plug into the law and they can't charge a person. So the grayer the better. Then the courts rule to gray and it is thrown out. If Things look like they are illegal and that OR in CO law makes me believe it is then I will err on the side of caution. If I didn't have that OR in the law and I didn't have a State RKBA's group like RMGO stating even sometimes I would have stated NO for CO or just stated ????? I do not know.
Again I knew this was going to be very difficult to list the laws on Gun Signs. Mainly with the states that don't have a set law for them. Laws almost exclusively state what we can't do. If there is no law saying something is illegal then it is legal. So there would be no law stating No Gun Signs don't have the force of law. So we muddle on trying to figure things out.
I have looked and can't find anything that gives a clear answer. I would err on the side of caution. Let us know how it goes. I can't stand being in Denver. The hunting expo looks like a good time though enjoy.
I went a few years ago and did not see any signs, of course that could have changed by now. When I carry in that type of environment (lots of people and Denver or Boulder) I always use my CrossBread Super Tuck which conceals my full size 1911 very well. In addition often times I will wear a vest so no one sees the holster clips.
I recommend you leave your concealed carry badge at home.:image035:
Have fun
Hunting Expo, you say? I put $1 on someone selling CCW badges at the event :yup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk Hunter
Thanks for the responses. Mostly concerned with metal detectors and Denver "gotcha" gun rules. I, too, rarely venture to Denver or like-minded places. Prefer the mountains where we can comfortably open carry and regulary hear neighbors target shooting.
Will be wearing my local-made leather/kydex IWB holster and a cover vest. May pick up the CCW badge and sash to complete my ensemble. :image035: