I feel horrible - Page 4

I feel horrible

This is a discussion on I feel horrible within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Start looking for a new job while continuing to do your current job to the best of your ability....

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  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Start looking for a new job while continuing to do your current job to the best of your ability.


  2. #47
    Member Array jerp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    It wasn't a personal attack and if you said that about a persons house then I apologize. But, now I am curious. Why do you afford the homeowner the respect of no guns but not a store owner?
    After further review of the play, on both you and matt, you two are almost talking about the exact same thing. I understand your view completely. However matts view is a little hazy but still understanding. And to answer your question, the home owner really has nothing to do with the public. A store/business has to go through the government/city council what have you, to get a license to deal with being a merchant to the public. And if the government says that ccw is vaild in the public, even though that business owner has "his own"/"private" business, he opened it up to the public for the public use by getting his merchants license.

    I think i have that right...
    A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check Made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

    Prepare for the worst, hope for the best!

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    Start looking for a new job while continuing to do your current job to the best of your ability.
    He posted elsewhere today that he was moving to Arkansas, so the ethical, moral and legal dilemma will soon be solved.

  4. #49
    Member Array jerp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    He posted elsewhere today that he was moving to Arkansas, so the ethical, moral and legal dilemma will soon be solved.
    Thank you. Thats kinda been the point of posting that, considering i cant quite close the discussion on here. Plus the new job i have lined up, working on a ranch for an old friend, well its a givin open carry all day while at work, CC in public. Problem solved. I must say some of the conversations that have transpired have been entertaining tho.
    A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check Made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

    Prepare for the worst, hope for the best!

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerp View Post
    Thank you. Thats kinda been the point of posting that, considering i cant quite close the discussion on here. Plus the new job i have lined up, working on a ranch for an old friend, well its a givin open carry all day while at work, CC in public. Problem solved. I must say some of the conversations that have transpired have been entertaining tho.
    I detected the entertainment element early on. Happy trails.

  6. #51
    Ex Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    So then I have the right to exercise my first amendment rights inside a private business? I have this feeling that a voodoo sacrifice at Starbucks is out of the question.

  7. #52
    Ex Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    So the law is right when you agree with it but otherwise it's wrong? Your logic is illogical. A Residence is different than a business.

    If you own or run a business you agreed to operate it under the regulations and laws set forth to regulate it under your business license. While it remains private property you gave up certain rights as to its control in order to solicit business from the public for profit.
    You should point out where the right to determine if carrying is allowed is given up in order to operate a business. Sorry but it is their business and their rules. Not to mention it is the morally right thing to do as they ask you. Jesus said "Do unto others..." and I believe that.

  8. #53
    Member Array M203Sniper's Avatar
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    The civil rights act of 1964 clearly defines the difference between a Public Accomodation and Private property. That act speaks towards discrimination based on race and religion however if you actually follow the rule of law all rights are covered.

    You can make whatever laws you want in your house. Starbucks however can not limit my constitutional rights.

    In today's age of money = politics and bought legislation I would even argue that the law in Wisconsin for the OP is a violation of 18 USC 242 Conspiracy to deprive a person of Rights under the color of law. Just because the politicians passed a law prohibiting concealed carry does not mean it passes muster under the US Constitution.

    Here in AZ a public accommodation may post a place of business or make a reasonable request stating No Firearms are allowed but it has no teeth because it just becomes trespassing. Those signs are noted and ignored.

    I hope I answered your questions. As for the "Do Unto others" I follow it implicitly - I don't want you to die and if I were trapped and defenseless in my time of need I hope you have the tools necessary to come to my aid. It's what I would do for you.
    pfries likes this.
    "Words can be as lethal as bullets; Choose them carefully, Aim them well & Use them sparingly."

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M203Sniper View Post
    The civil rights act of 1964 clearly defines the difference between a Public Accomodation and Private property. That act speaks towards discrimination based on race and religion however if you actually follow the rule of law all rights are covered.

    You can make whatever laws you want in your house. Starbucks however can not limit my constitutional rights.

    In today's age of money = politics and bought legislation I would even argue that the law in Wisconsin for the OP is a violation of 18 USC 242 Conspiracy to deprive a person of Rights under the color of law. Just because the politicians passed a law prohibiting concealed carry does not mean it passes muster under the US Constitution.

    Here in AZ a public accommodation may post a place of business or make a reasonable request stating No Firearms are allowed but it has no teeth because it just becomes trespassing. Those signs are noted and ignored.

    I hope I answered your questions. As for the "Do Unto others" I follow it implicitly - I don't want you to die and if I were trapped and defenseless in my time of need I hope you have the tools necessary to come to my aid. It's what I would do for you.
    I did not know it is that simple. You should be a lawyer and then a judge. Good grief. Talk about strtching things so you can get your own way. I am pretty sure the government lawyers that are hired to defend laws stupid or not have done a little bit more study than you. If you are a lawyer explain to me why we lose case law a lot of times. Because maybe no matter how screwed up they are the judicial system find them lawful and Constitutional. Thanks for your concern. Now you as well as church SWAT teams are looking for my well being.

  10. #55
    Member Array jerp's Avatar
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    What i honestly believe has happened not only to the people of this country, but the government as well, is that so many laws have been made and deemed "with-in" the constitution, no one really can tell constitutional from non-constitutional. Just my $.02 on that part.
    A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check Made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

    Prepare for the worst, hope for the best!

  11. #56
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M203Sniper View Post
    The civil rights act of 1964 clearly defines the difference between a Public Accomodation and Private property. That act speaks towards discrimination based on race and religion however if you actually follow the rule of law all rights are covered.

    You can make whatever laws you want in your house. Starbucks however can not limit my constitutional rights.

    In today's age of money = politics and bought legislation I would even argue that the law in Wisconsin for the OP is a violation of 18 USC 242 Conspiracy to deprive a person of Rights under the color of law. Just because the politicians passed a law prohibiting concealed carry does not mean it passes muster under the US Constitution.

    Here in AZ a public accommodation may post a place of business or make a reasonable request stating No Firearms are allowed but it has no teeth because it just becomes trespassing. Those signs are noted and ignored.

    I hope I answered your questions. As for the "Do Unto others" I follow it implicitly - I don't want you to die and if I were trapped and defenseless in my time of need I hope you have the tools necessary to come to my aid. It's what I would do for you.
    Starbucks can violate your constitutional rights 7 days a week.

    If you carry a gun in Starbucks, you can be ejected if they don't want that. You can't put posters up for your favorite candidate if they don't want that. You can't hold a religious service at the counter if they don't want that and a cop does not need a warrant to enter Starbucks to talk to you about any of those things you're doing that they don't want - especially you on their premises.

    Just because you carry a gun does not make your wishes law or mean that everyone who doesn't want you around with it is a Ruthless Dictator. Basic Rights, the Amendments, protect from Government tyranny, not your neighborhood grocer.
    suntzu and Toorop like this.

  12. #57
    Member Array M203Sniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    Starbucks can violate your constitutional rights 7 days a week.

    If you carry a gun in Starbucks, you can be ejected if they don't want that. You can't put posters up for your favorite candidate if they don't want that. You can't hold a religious service at the counter if they don't want that and a cop does not need a warrant to enter Starbucks to talk to you about any of those things you're doing that they don't want - especially you on their premises.

    Just because you carry a gun does not make your wishes law or mean that everyone who doesn't want you around with it is a Ruthless Dictator. Basic Rights, the Amendments, protect from Government tyranny, not your neighborhood grocer.
    That makes perfect sense;

    Let me go over to California and stop all the blacks and liberal women from voting because I disagree with them. No law against that right. Just a limitation on the government.

    Your argument about trespassing has nothing to do with a lawful activity. Carrying concealed is not an element of the trespass law. Just because YOU disagree with what I've said doesn't mean you get to violate my constitutional rights. That's why I carry a gun in the first place - because of dangerous men confusing what they want with what they can do.
    "Words can be as lethal as bullets; Choose them carefully, Aim them well & Use them sparingly."

  13. #58
    Member Array Mograthi's Avatar
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    I would suggest that none of us on this forum disagree with the fact that our right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental right which the framers of the constitution included in the bill of rights so that no one can remove that right from us much like they put the freedom of speech in as the 1st amendment.

    That being said, we unfortunately live under a system of laws that do not always adhere to the constitution and the bill of rights. It is all well and good to say it is my constitutional right so go take a flying leap I am carrying here even if you tell me I can't under the law, in fact some like yourself would argue that the law carries no weight on the matter because the constitution supersedes the law. Personally I agree with that statement. Practically I also know that at the drop of a hat I will be prosecuted under the law if I do as I would like and is my constitutional right, so I choose to either not go into places that are posted or disarm myself before going in if it is absolutely somewhere I have to be, like my work.

    It will be a little while before we have case law to back up the liability immunity portion of the WI law and the converse of assumed liability via posting no carry signs. The law is worded in such a way that one could take it to mean that a business that chooses to disallow carry by a permit holder can be held liable if something should happen in there business. I am waiting for that one to play out in court, but i do know of a few law offices that had signs up before the law passed which took them down after the bill passed due to that assumed liability.

  14. #59
    Senior Member Array bandrich's Avatar
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    In Wisconsin it is a class "B" forefiture if caught with a firearm when posted. $1,000. fine no jail time.
    BA
    Kahr CM9, Beretta PX4 SC .40, Ruger LCP/LM, Dan Wesson .357, Beretta 21A .22, Four Aces .22, H&R .22, Marlin .22 rifle and 1946 Remington 12 gauge.

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M203Sniper View Post
    That makes perfect sense;

    Let me go over to California and stop all the blacks and liberal women from voting because I disagree with them. No law against that right. Just a limitation on the government.

    Your argument about trespassing has nothing to do with a lawful activity. Carrying concealed is not an element of the trespass law. Just because YOU disagree with what I've said doesn't mean you get to violate my constitutional rights. That's why I carry a gun in the first place - because of dangerous men confusing what they want with what they can do.
    Are you making this stuff up as you go or do you really believe what you are saying. Like I have said before...don't try to explain it, just say this"I don't like and I will do what I want because I want to".
    As far as the founding fathers, they wanted a lot of things. We tend to forget the ones that were screwed up and remember the ones we like (right to bear arms). Ever read what the founding fathers thought of slavery, womans rights, homeowner rights. For every good quote that I agree with the founding fathers I can find one on how they were dead wrong on issues.

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