lots of malfunctions - Page 4

lots of malfunctions

This is a discussion on lots of malfunctions within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So how much training is enough?...

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Thread: lots of malfunctions

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    So how much training is enough?
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)


  2. #47
    Member Array jon_volk's Avatar
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    An interesting thing to add on this subject is in Connecticut you are required to take an NRA pistol class in order to either get a permit or even an eligibility certificate to purchase a handgun. That means you only meet the minimum requirement of live fire time by using a weapon that you will likely never touch again. It makes you wonder how many people obtained their permit, purchased a handgun for carry or home defense and have never fired it.

  3. #48
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC View Post
    After reading what some states require for issuance of a CHL, I realize how easy it was for me in VA. I don't think that's really a good thing. I'd like to think that here in my state, most people became as obsessed as I did in my thirst for knowledge beforehand in every aspect. It is a bit scary to think that a VA resident can get a permit without ever having fired a gun.
    How much training do you think a person should have before they are allowed to defend themselves? We've all read stories of women, and some men, being stalked who needed a gun RFN. They didn't have time, or in some cases the money, to go get trained, they just wanted to live. So they bought a gun, if they were in a state that valued life more than training, and did the best they could. Or, they died defensless, sometimes in very ugly ways, if they were in a state that valued training more than life.

    Which do you value more, training or life?

    Me, I'm glad I live in a state (PA) that values life more than training. There is no training required to get a CCL in PA, there is to get a hunting license, and that makes sense to me. Hunting is optional, self defense isn't. There is even the possibility for the Sheriff to issue a permit the same day. And no permit or training is required to buy a handgun, just being able to pass the background instant check phone call does it. Walk in the store, walk out with a gun, or guns, 30 minutes later if you have the money to pay for it and a clean record.

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

  4. #49
    Ex Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
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    Like GunByte said "Semi autos do jam for man",,,, even if yours has
    NEVER done it before there is always the POSSIBILITY of a jam.
    That is why I love the wheelies,,,, they don't jam and most
    gun battles or shootings there is only 1-3 shots fired NORMALLY.

  5. #50
    Member Array Bongo Boy's Avatar
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    What GunByte said about matches, yup. These are folks who know more than average about guns and gun handling. It's worth the time and effort to shoot a dozen matches for this purpose alone. Some of your more expensive guns are among the more common culprits. Nice and tight, no jiggly slides that so many people equate to low quality or poor accuracy. I've repeatedly seen multi-thousand dollar customs ('combat' customs in one case) have the problems. It wouldn't be funny if it wasn't so funny. OTOH, these guys are there to discover these things there--so it serves its purpose. I've seen revolvers 'jam', too; they are certainly not immune to malfunctions, and I've had revolver experts tell me that.

    Folks don't go to matches or the range with the ammo they intend to carry, at least not very often. At $1 a round for the 'magic bullet' ammo so many feel is essential to being prepared for that big gunfight, they never shoot it in practice, or they equate "fired 25 rounds flawlessly!" to being reliable.

    Being armed doesn't mean being prepared. If training is a requirement of the state then the state should pay for it. In fact I'd like to see the government offer to pay for basic firearms safety training for anyone who wants it, for any reason. If you do choose to take the training, it must be accepted by the state as meeting the state's requirements. You also have the option of taking a quick evaluation (test-out) if you can demonstrate knowledge of the Four Rules.

    The only places where this arrangement would be amended would be places such as Chicago--where the City would have to furnish each citizen a self-defense handgun of his/her choice, free-of-charge, to atone for past transgressions of human freedom.

    There--the liberal side of me is now fully-exposed. The government actually sponsors the safety and training of a well-armed militia. Now my tax dollars are actually doing something.
    Last edited by Bongo Boy; January 25th, 2012 at 06:23 PM.
    “If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.” T Bankhead
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  6. #51
    Member Array Bongo Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkruf View Post
    I'd say that in the OP's story, the stoppages were due to new guns that have not been cleaned since they came out of the box, have not had their 200 rounds of recommended break in, and a new shooter that was probably limp wristing the gun.
    Not knowing any more, I'd agree with this. Although I personally feel limp wristing is somewhat overblown as the cause of anything, I certainly have seen new shooter classes enough to have seen a lot of folks with their first gun, or with new guns. So, I'm in agreement--probably more due to guns new and seldom fired than due to a general poor maintenance issue.

    As for taking all the time in the world to shoot--I expect 2-3 reasons: not being familiar with the gun, not knowing when it's going to discharge or what it takes to get it to discharge, having a lot of anticipation of it discharging, and feeling obligated to 'shoot good'. Shooting in public is a lot like billiards in public, especially for guys, IMO. There's some sort of presumed expectation that you should be able to do this well--folks have far less fun at billiards that they should because so much time is spent making excuses for not shooting well, when in fact there's no reason to expect good performance without at least some coaching and practice. Same for shooting firearms. It's not really a gift bestowed on American males at birth through divine intervention, but many seem to think so.
    highonroof likes this.
    “If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.” T Bankhead
    National Mill Dog Rescue www.milldogrescue.org

  7. #52
    Member Array highonroof's Avatar
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    I see my post being interpreted in many ways, allow me to clarify.

    Let start with the rules for the range. This range does not allow anything but factory ammo. Although cheap ammo may have been used, it was factory ammo.

    Three people brought revolvers to the course and they all opted to rent a .22lr for the purpose of being able to carry any type of handgun in the future.

    These failures happened to people who presented themselves and having experience shooting and "practiced" regularly.

    I can only think that the issues that caused these malfunctions were in fact maintenance issues. Not sure whether it was due to lack of break in or not. I also mention the fact that people were taking their time on the line. Again, this was from 3 & 5 yards (not as someone said, trying to correct me, from 5 & 7 yards). The purpose of the range time is to see that you can put lead down range. The shooting is not scored at all, I was told that you really don't even need to hit the paper. I don't agree with this, but it is what it is.

    I am not trying to make fun of people with less firearms experience than myself, I am by no means a professional and I'm certain that others would find fault in things I do. I just noticed that people are wanting to rely on the function of a "tool" that they don't take care of. I suppose this is true in many aspects of life. There are a bunch of people who don't check the oil in their car.

    Personally, I prefer to be prepared. I will be diligent with maintenance for anything I must rely on whether it be one of our vehicles, one of my guns, or my lawnmower.

    So take this from the thread........ it is important to be prepared. Preparedness is not just carrying a weapon and understanding when you can and can not use it. It is also being responsible enough to make sure that your weapon is "prepared".

    Dave
    Taurus PT 640 Pro

  8. #53
    Member Array Bongo Boy's Avatar
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    Your points are the important ones, Dave. I'm happy to see that here on this forum the notion that preparedness transcends wearing a gun seems to be a welcome idea. I took from your OP only what you've repeated--not that you're criticizing people for their abilities--just challenging them on their habits and expectations.

    We can also hope that carrying will make folks MORE aware of their surroundings, more prepared to recognize sketchy situations and better able to avoid them, not less so.
    “If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.” T Bankhead
    National Mill Dog Rescue www.milldogrescue.org

  9. #54
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    The thing you have to realize also is that it is training! I would rather figure it out that the gun has issues then, not when my Life depended on it. Lets hope they make the proper adjustments, so that the right people don t get hurt. Insanity is repeating a pattern without change!
    Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!

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  10. #55
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highonroof View Post
    Hi everyone,

    Yesterday I took my CCL class. One thing that really struck me strange was the amount of malfunctions I saw while we were on the range.

    After the time spent on the range, I casually asked 2/4 people I saw with gun problems, if that was the gun they intended on carrying. They both said yes. These were not cheap guns either, names are not needed because I can't say that it was the guns fault. I would be led to believe that it was a maintenance issues.

    Another thing that I noticed was that everyone was taking their time with discharging their weapon, as if it was a test of marksmanship. Seriously, the paper is 3-5 yards away, point and shoot. The purpose of the range time was to put lead down range, we were not being scored.

    So to summarize my thoughts for yesterday ....... there are many people out there with CCL's that are not comfortable with firing their weapon and many do not know how to properly maintain their weapons. I think just as important as all the rules of safety, people need to train in other aspects as well. They need to be be able to fire their weapon as if it is natural and they need to take good care of it so it goes bang when needed.

    Dave
    Causes can be:
    -limpwristing while shooting and most do not realize that
    -a dirty gun (this can be prevented/best thing is clean and oil everytime after you shoot or once a week if it is your carry gun)
    -a defective gun (not as often but it does happen)
    -defective magazine (discovered that recently on my S&W 457 .45 after it had some stovepipes and double feeds/it's worked well since I replaced it with fresh mags)
    -poor quality/defective/incompatible ammo (avoid the ones that do not work well on your gun/ex.=Blazer FMJs do not work well w/ my H&K USP .40)
    -missing part(s) on your gun
    -forgetting that your gun's chamber was empty or loaded with inert rounds)

  11. #56
    Member Array remington79's Avatar
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    I remember years ago when I took my Texas CHL course when we got to the shooting qualification there was about 5 or 6 of us that morning. My HK and the Glocks ran fine. (the course is only 50-60 rounds) but one guy had a Browning High Power that kept jamming every few rounds. From what I remember it was a poor maintance issue. I can't remember how clean or dirty that guys High Power was but I do remember a lack of lubrication being an issue. Add that to the fact taht he made a comment that he hadn't picked it up in a few years.

  12. #57
    Member Array Honk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    Buy a quality weapon, learn how to maintain it and then keep it maintained. If a weapon jams on the range, it will jam when the shtf.
    A clean gun is a happy gun :-) We love happy guns, LOL.

    And a heartfelt thank you for your service!
    "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands. " Col. Jeff Cooper

    Proud member NRA, VCDL, USPSA, IDPA & DADD ( if you have daughters, you understand )

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