Leave gun in car at work?
This is a discussion on Leave gun in car at work? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't really care what my Employer thinks or wants because they are not responsible for protecting my life in a self defense situation, I ...
February 1st, 2012 01:21 AM
I don't really care what my Employer thinks or wants because they are not responsible for protecting my life in a self defense situation, I DO! I leave my Car Gun in my car, a Glock 30SF and my Carry Gun is on my person at all times, Period! I live in Florida and have a CC Permit but my employer says NO GUNS ALLOWED at WORK and will cause termination of employment if I break this rule. I am retired and only work 2 days a week and even if I worked full time, I would not follow that rule. My Gun stays in my Front Pocket Holster and no one knows it is there and I am very comfortable with this. I also lived in New Jersey/New York for 52 years and even though it was against the law to have a weapon, I always carried one with me wherever I went, unless there was some sort of Metal Scanner to go through. I always looked at it this way, the only time I will get caught with my gun is when I have to shoot someone, so I would rather be ALIVE and holding my smoking Gun than be a DEAD MAN, with a stupid look on my face!
February 1st, 2012 01:58 AM
I asked this question as I teach and according to CA law I can not carry on campus without permission from my superintendent. Something I will not be asking for. As such I leave my gun(s) in a gunvault in my car. I asked the sheriff that interviewed me for my CCW about it as I live 30 miles from my place of employment and he (not a lawyer) said that no DA in this county would prosecute such an issue. Deesn't make it law and I understand that, but I believe my safety is worth the risk in this situation, if it is in fact against the law.
GL, you will find many differing opinions here and only you can decide what is right, and worth it for you.
"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain
February 1st, 2012 05:11 AM
Huh? Injury or death arising from STORAGE OF GUNS? Ok, sounds like an anti author is grasping at straws to draw a conclusion that they want when the evidence doesn't support it. I haven't read the article, yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see comments about the risk of them "just going off". Ok, so there is the risk of a smash-n-grab car theft but the same thing could happen at the McDonald's across the street.
Originally Posted by sdprof
I am also starting to find it highly amusing when everyone starts claiming laws are unconstitutional/. In many cases they don't have a thing to do with the constitution. In this case, the constitutions limits what the govt can do, not what a private employer can do; regular legislation can limit the private citizen.
In terms of making a mountain out of a smaller problem, it reminds me of several years ago when the RoHS rules in electronics went into effect, commonly known as lead free solder. By the sounds of things, you would think that if they didn't eliminate the lead in solder, we would all be swimming in it in a decade. What is amusing is that there is more lead in a single bullet than in most circuit boards and what happens to most bullets? For that matter, there is far more lead used in the automobile industry, but that was considered to be too powerful to attack. so, they picked on the electronics industry. Not because their position was right, but because they could. The very same reason a dog licks it's crotch.
February 1st, 2012 12:21 PM
The "storage of guns" issue here relates to the guns being nearby, so the angry worker could run out to his/her car, grab the evil black gun, and wreak mayhem.
The unconstitutiononality refers to laws forcing the businesses to allow guns in cars. The author sees that as a 5th ammendment violation - unlawfully "taking" property rights from the business owner.
Mountains and molehills, you're spot on!
The only common sense gun legislation was written about 224 years ago.
I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.
February 1st, 2012 12:56 PM
This thought just hit me while reading your response. In regards to the question of: when my vehicle parked in your lot, are the contents of my vehicle considered my property or yours, it seems obvious that they remain mine along with all the personal property rights. First, off, the vehicle itself remains mine. "You" (i.e. the employer) is not paying for any liens on the vehicle, is not paying for the insurance, not paying for any maintenance, etc. All of the contents, including the ability to operate the vehicle, remain behind a locked barrier that "you" do not have access to. When you take all of this into account, it seems to me that saying that the contents of said vehicle are protected is a natural extension, one that is unfortunately necessary to guard against Little Napoleon who manages the Genghis Khan company.
Originally Posted by sdprof
February 1st, 2012 03:44 PM
Gun? What gun?... Prove it.
IMO folks worry way too much about this topic... I'd say flat out. DON'T BREAK ANY LAWS IN YOUR RESPECTIVE STATE, but other than that; take your gun, leave it in your car in a good vehicle safe, or carry on your person in a good deep cover setup, and keep your mouth shut.
These types of discussions never resolve anything. It's like a chess game with no winner... The BG's carry no matter what, and the good guys try to stay within the legal boundaries. It's our task to stay legal and prepared, but with one hand tied behind our backs at all times it seems... How often and just how far we decide to let non binding signage and company policies designed to protect the big wigs at the top, while at the same time inhibit the staff's abilities to defend themselves is up to each individual. For some who would sit in judgment of my statement, know this. I know firsthand that both of the guys that I answer to at my office carry on a daily basis. I also know that they would be very displeased if they found out anyone else is, or does; myself included..
Key words here........... "found out"
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." — Thomas Jefferson
February 1st, 2012 04:21 PM
I've had this debate almost everyday for 5years.
I work for a school district and sometimes they have random searches via K-9.
Now I'm protected under the handbook as I can't carry on premise (building or portion of).
I'm protected via CHL against the gun free school zones, and I'm not around during school functions that may end up in the parking lot.
I do park in a "staff" section of the lot....but still.
I have my little one with me everyday as she has day care in the one of the schools.
Somtimes I do, somtimes I don't. I just take it day by day. I've learned to "feel out" when a possible search will be conducted due to certain upcoming events, or previous incidents involveing violence and or drugs, and that is an advantage. Then I can go to another campus or office for the time being.....
I've been told that the K-9 used is primarly focused on Weed, and other drugs...but stilll.
Some/most LEO's are i'll informed on what premises means, and the details of the laws (immunities) regarding CHL carriers. AND SOME just can't get past the fact that civies that have CHL...well, shouldn't and will got to lengths to prove a point because they can...and it could cost me an excellent job that is very fullfilling to me.
SO no I don't have a defeinitive answer for anyone other than know the State, local laws and your employers policies. and what risks are you to take......
February 1st, 2012 04:42 PM
I used to keep a gun in my car,designated as a car gun. Now I have too may cars so just carry one when not at work. It is against the state law to carry in the College I work. So I don't.
February 1st, 2012 06:39 PM
[QUOTE=noway2;2146154One option to consider, though, it may not be completely practical is to send yourself an envelope and then put your weapon in it (I think it would need to be sealed). While you may be searched, they don't have any grounds to open your mail. [/QUOTE]
It is actually a Federal Offense for your employer to look at your mail (previously opened or not) without your permission. That is the ONLY personal property right you have from your employer in some states. you mail yourself an empty box or envelope, put your gun in it AFTER you have received it back, put it in your safe in your car and if it happens to get searched tell them to knock themselves out. If they find the safe and ask you to open it, go ahead. If they reach for the envelope, inform them that inspecting your mail is a Federal Offense. Tell them you get your mail on the way to work and lock it in the safe because you often receive checks and merchandise in the mail because of an ebay hobby. My concern with getting ratted out was always with a disgruntled employee or co-worker. What if you had to deal with a situation at work and they rat you out to get revenge? Then the employer has to abide by the policy or it could look like favoritism. When I lived in the rural mountains, there was an 80% chance that any given car you picked out had a firearm in it at any given time...someone could make the claim whether or not they knew and had a good chance of lucking up and being right. Since we are now guilty unless proven innocent, all someone has to do is make an accusation and you're on the hook for proving otherwise.
I went through this with my employer in Virginia. Since it was in the policy that they could search your car, you had no reasonable expectation of privacy in your car on their property in that state. You could refuse the search, but they could fire you. Before I received written permission in accordance with the policy, I had researched the issue at length and came across the mailed envelope solution. Again, it doesn't have to be sealed. I just put a piece of tape on it to hold it shut. Once I got written permission to store it locked in my car, it was fine. Now that I work and live in Florida, the state law supercedes the employer policy and they can't even legally ask about it.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
February 1st, 2012 06:48 PM
Ive had mine in the car at work. But sometimes have my kel-tec 32 with me. Dont tell anyone and there none the wiser.
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