am i wrong - Page 4

am i wrong

This is a discussion on am i wrong within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Can't really say what I would do in that situation because I just carry a gun and it's not up for debate, BUT my wife ...

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  1. #46
    Member Array RonCo's Avatar
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    Can't really say what I would do in that situation because I just carry a gun and it's not up for debate, BUT my wife is the kind of person who will back down if she knows that I am dead serious about something (usually ).

    I think it comes down to communication. You have to communicate without yelling, and getting all emotional that it is non-negotiable.
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  2. #47
    Ex Member Array Snatale42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palumbo3284 View Post
    I don't live in MI so I can't speak to their laws. However, even if they don't carry force of law, they do carry possible embarrassment in front of other parents that may also be friends with their children who are not comfortable around guns and for your family if you do get "made" and the local establishment causes a stink in front of everybody or worse, with some anti manager working there just calls the police.
    Concealed means CONCEALED! That's just me. I could care less if the cops show, since there's ZERO they can do about it. OCing is a different story. Although I don't seek approval from businesses when I do that either. I'll get some dirty looks from the crunchy morons, but nobody every says anything. I come from a screwed up gun state (MA), peoples FEAR of exercising their rights have done all the damage there, I won't make that mistake here. MA is an open carry state, but it always causes an issue when people do. People need to be desensitized. Asking permission and leaving the guns at home only make the problem worse. That's is FACT! Ok. I'm done ranting.
    Rugergirl and lonewolf486 like this.

  3. #48
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    SUNTZU

    I thought you were talking about lying by OMISSION. At least that is what you typed.
    I have been happily married for quite some time now. Do I tell my Wife everything?
    No...of course not. I don't want to spend all of my precious and treasured time with my Wife sitting down and hashing out every little thing that we would disagree and have arguments about.

    First & foremost marriage is about trust. And I trust my Wife enough & vice versa enough to know that we are two decidedly different people. It's also based on giving one another SPACE and individual freedom.
    Back when I worked doing forensic photography I would come home from work and my Wife would ask me how my day was. I would say: "fine" - I would not say:
    "I just photographed the naked decapitated torso of a young woman today that had the hands and feet lopped off."
    I guess you could call that "lying by ommission" - another example would be be the fact that my Wife and I have totally different outlooks and beliefs as to what the near future of the U.S. will be.
    She suffers from a bit of "normalcy bias" and I would probably be better classed as a Doomsday Prepper.
    I happen to like my Wife with her carefree, happy go lucky, personality - I can be concerned and prepare for both of us for now.
    Out of love - I have no desire to morph her into a nervous wreck over what possible future events "may or may not" unfold.
    Consequently I do not tell her about my emergency preparedness purchases.
    I buy them with my money - which is (of course) ultimately "our" money since I am prepping for HER as well as myself.

    Do I want to hash out the Emergency Expatriation Act & the recent New Years Eve passing of the N.D.A.A. and the fact that our Vote Tallies in the next presidential election will all be funneled to Spain to a company with ties to Goldman Sachs?
    Even though I am steadfast and "rock steady" in those personal beliefs I know that she does not want to hear it.
    On the flip side of the coin I (for sure) do not want to know about the idiosyncracies of how she ultimately decided on the new sweater & jeans that she just purchased.

    So...if you're going some place with your Wife and she states that she does not want you to carry a firearm when you go there.
    You are then going to sit her down & be a manly MAN & Man Up" and debate it UNTIL you ultimately force her to agree with you? Through manly logic. AKA - Your Words: "and explain to her that this is something I will not budge on."

    You'll argue or rather sternly "discuss" it & discuss it until you finally make her understand?

    Otherwise.. you're just not going to go - because you just will not budge on that.

    So you're just going to "discuss" it until the final pre-determined outcome is...YOU WIN & she either agrees with you...or she loses.

    Wow!...what a great marriage based on TRUTH and the classic "my way or the highway" philosophy you have.

    I guarantee you would feel lots worse than "just like crap" if she got killed or critically injured or your kid got killed or paralyzed from the neck down...or you became incapacitated & unable to function? And of course you wouldn't feel anything if you got killed.

    That's a great formula for a happy marriage and that prior discussion would sure would make for a fun time at the Ice Skating Rink with the kiddies.
    None For Me Thanks.
    I'm just slippping the pistol into ol' the pocket and going to have a good time.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I put both posts in so folks can see what I said. How on earth do you equate lying which is what I said to being cojoined at the forhead. It is the exact opposite. It says to be honest, that means there may be disagreements......


    1. I never said anything like you just posted. So read my post again. Mine is about lying.
    2. I agree with your assesment of marraige. Saying that, you then man up and sit her down and explain to her that this is something I will not budge on. That is wha marraige is about:the truth, good, bad or otherwise. It is not a venue for deciet, lying by ommisiion or any other type of subterfuge.
    3. I would feel like crap if I wasn;t armed and my wife or loved ones were injured. That is why you man up and tell her. You don't get an LCP and sneak it around without her knowing. Oh, and sorry, been there too much, I am not carrying to risk my life to protect those that do not want to carry and protect themselves. I am not a sheepdog, nor caped crusader. A strangers safety is thier own resposibility, not mine. I am going home to my family.
    4. Folks seem to think the only person they should notify even though they don't have to is a LEO. Just because it is a polite courteous thing to do. The same folks seem to think it is OK to hide, sneak, lie by ommission to family members, friends, business's, and wives!
    But to summarize, I don't know why you quoted me when I said nothing of the sort.

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    SUNTZU

    You'll argue about it & discuss it until you finally make her understand?
    Otherwise.. you're just not going to go - because you just will not budge on that. So you're just going to "discuss" it until the final pre-determined outcome is...YOU WIN & she either agrees or she loses.
    Wow!...what a great marriage based on TRUTH and "my way or the highway" you have.
    I guarantee you would feel lots worse than "just like crap" if she got killed or critically injured or your kid got killed or paralyzed from the neck down...or you became incapacitated & unable to function? And of course you wouldn't feel anything if you got killed.
    That's a great formula for a happy marriage and that prior discussion would sure would make for a fun time at the Ice Skating Rink with the kiddies.
    None For Me Thanks.
    I'm just slippping the pistol into ol' the pocket and going to have a good time.
    Look, you are again reading into something that is not there. I used the example of what this thread was "a dispute on carrying". You seem to extend that to my marraige. How again you are drawing conclusions from one example. There are some things in a marriage that are important enough to discuss and sometimes one of the spouses puts there foot down on something. I used but ONE example. BTW: in my marriage the CC is not an issue so you assumed I was talking about my self.
    There is a huge leap between saying my day went fine when it didn't and another to totally go against your wifes wishes on something that is important to her.
    If you think they are he same then that is your life and your marraige. I am not makeing a judgment on yours and the funny thing is you made a judgment on mine when I wasn't even talking about me. I really don't care if you lie to your wife. It was my opinion. Guess if you told her not to cheat on ya and she felt passionate about it it would be OK for her to lie about it. Of course it wouldn't. Becasue it is important to you and would hhurt you.

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I am just kinda done about this about honesty. As a group, people that CC always pat themselves on the back about being fine upstanding responsible law abiding citizens. But if somebody expresses a desire for them not to bring a firearm into a home, into a business, or as in this example a family member, a wife to boot. A lot seem to to just say I am going to do it my way. We can say CANT all day long but it is a deceitful practice when it goes against somebody wishes. CANT for me is I am not going to go around advertising I am carrying but will respect the wishes of others. Whether that means not going somewhere or not carrying. I guess that is just me. Are there little lies and big lies in a marriage...sure. But I way my decisions and ommissions not on what I want, but what is important to my spouse. In this situation the spouse is adamant about not carrying to a roller rink. That is a far cry from saying your day went fine when it did not. Just my last 2 cents on the subject.

  6. #51
    Member Array Palumbo3284's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snatale42 View Post
    Concealed means CONCEALED! That's just me. I could care less if the cops show, since there's ZERO they can do about it. OCing is a different story. Although I don't seek approval from businesses when I do that either. I'll get some dirty looks from the crunchy morons, but nobody every says anything. I come from a screwed up gun state (MA), peoples FEAR of exercising their rights have done all the damage there, I won't make that mistake here. MA is an open carry state, but it always causes an issue when people do. People need to be desensitized. Asking permission and leaving the guns at home only make the problem worse. That's is FACT! Ok. I'm done ranting.
    All I am saying is that there could be other repercussions for your actions other than being thrown in the clink. People continually say "I won't be thrown in jail as a no gun sign has no legal force in my state" or "the cops cant do anything". Which is totally fine, and I completely understand that from a purely legal or being arrested perspective. I also do the same as you in most circumstances as im going to restaurants, grocery stores, sporting goods stores, etc. that if i get asked to leave, than whatever, ill just go somewhere else...no big deal. However, you have to also consider there may be other outcomes to your decision that do not include jail time or being arrested if you are made somewhere it is posted or given unique situations where the outcome could still be bad for other people you are with or your family.

    In my personal example with the hospital and why I was there, if I would have been made for whatever reason (I conceal all the time and very well, but stuff happens sometimes) I would have been directly impacting my fiancée due to my actions as she was completely put under. She could not drive, was completely out of it, and I was all she had at that point to make sure she was taken care of in that vulnerable situation. I personally chose the very small risk of being seen carrying and possibly thrown out of the hospital was still too high to do it...again, my personal risk assessment.

    In the OPs example, if he was made in this family type establishment that was against firearms, someone may have called the cops and caused a raucous, his family is there with his children, other families there with children that could possibly be against guns that his children play/hang out with, and so on. It is possible that those parents as a result of him carrying and being caught, even if no legal action is possible, could completely forbid their kids from hanging out/playing with his children, his family or wife having to deal with being ridiculed or being made fun of, the possible outcomes could be endless.

    My entire point being of my wordy response is that each person needs to do their own risk assessment and determine what their risk appetite is. Yours may be more than others in regards to my specific examples of possible outcomes, and that is totally ok. Just trying to illustrate that there are other outcomes to these decisions other than being arrested.

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I am just kinda done about this about honesty. As a group, people that CC always pat themselves on the back about being fine upstanding responsible law abiding citizens. But if somebody expresses a desire for them not to bring a firearm into a home, into a business, or as in this example a family member, a wife to boot. A lot seem to to just say I am going to do it my way. We can say CANT all day long but it is a deceitful practice when it goes against somebody wishes. CANT for me is I am not going to go around advertising I am carrying but will respect the wishes of others. Whether that means not going somewhere or not carrying. I guess that is just me. Are there little lies and big lies in a marriage...sure. But I way my decisions and ommissions not on what I want, but what is important to my spouse. In this situation the spouse is adamant about not carrying to a roller rink. That is a far cry from saying your day went fine when it did not. Just my last 2 cents on the subject.
    If there were no issues with guns we wouldnt have to conceal them to begin with, it can be claimed to be deceitful, period if you are going to be black and white about it. Yes, we are all law-abiding. And after that, we all have personal ethics about privacy and weighing our own rights & safety against others rights.

    I developed my opinions and stance after reading hundreds of these posts and the laws and am comfortable with mine. As people read yours, mine, and other posts...they shall develop theirs as well. IMO this isnt something static....it's constructive and educational.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    If there were no issues with guns we wouldnt have to conceal them to begin with, it can be claimed to be deceitful, period if you are going to be black and white about it. Yes, we are all law-abiding. And after that, we all have personal ethics about privacy and weighing our own rights & safety against others rights.

    I developed my opinions and stance after reading hundreds of these posts and the laws and am comfortable with mine. As people read yours, mine, and other posts...they shall develop theirs as well. IMO this isnt something static....it's constructive and educational.
    Wasn't being judgemental. just how I am. I just try not to lie to myself and be consistent.

  9. #54
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    SUNTZU

    I honestly am not trying to be argumentative. I am just attempting to help you see the flaw in your logic.
    That would be since you stated that your desire in your relationship is for truth, honesty and no sneakiness.
    When you sit down with your Wife in order to "discuss" a subject that you already know in advance that you'll not budge on....that is NOT a discussion.

    That would be a sneaky, "pretend" and dishonest form of discussion that is just an underhanded method for you to lay down your law while feigning equality and faking a willingness to listen to her side and her opinion.

    It's just a better hidden and more highly masked form of dishonesty and sneakiness where you would be tricking and fooling yourself and your Wife into believing that you were being fair and equitable for an outcome that you've already decided.

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Wasn't being judgemental. just how I am. I just try not to lie to myself and be consistent.
    I know and I feel you are an articulate poster who presents his view well. I respect that.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    SUNTZU

    I honestly am not trying to be argumentative. I am just attempting to help you see the flaw in your logic.
    That would be since you stated that your desire in your relationship is for truth, honesty and no sneakiness.
    When you sit down with your Wife in order to "discuss" a subject that you already know in advance that you'll not budge on....that is NOT a discussion.

    That would be a sneaky, "pretend" and dishonest form of discussion that is just an underhanded method for you to lay down your law while feigning equality and faking a willingness to listen to her side and her opinion.

    It's just a better hidden and more highly masked form of dishonesty and sneakiness where you would be tricking and fooling yourself and your Wife into believing that you were being fair and equitable for an outcome that you've already decided.
    Good grief...first don't be patronizing becasue it doesn;t work. Read what I wrote and stop trying to look into it like it is my life. If I need to re word it for you how about this: If I am not going to budge on something I will sit down with my wife and explain why. It is not a deception to try to sway opinions. I am upfront with it. So stop trying to rationalize your position. I get it it, you want to lie to her:fine.
    My wife has also layed the law down, no booze in the house. We don;t drink but when we have friends over she doesn;t want them drinking in our house.
    Do you see the difference:

    Here is a conversation in our house:
    "Honey: I know you don;t like me doing this but this why I am going to continue to do so, I respect your feelings on this, but like I have bowed to your wishes sometimes I hope you resppect me on this.

    Does that make it crystal clear, that is honesty.

    This is being sneaky i.e not honest:
    Hubby:"Ready to go honey"
    Wife:Yes dear, you are not carrying to my dads house are you?
    Hubby:"No dear, I am not" as the person slips a gun into thier pocket.

  12. #57
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    look, grow a pair before she finds someone who has some
    paching likes this.

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyrakes View Post
    look, grow a pair before she finds someone who has some
    Why turn it personal? That ain't right

  14. #59
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    you say--"so, i did not go"

    is that to mean that they went with out you?
    by absenting yourself you were in no position to be of any usefulness should anything have occurred.
    be it in route or at the location...you were useless in yous absence.


    multiple troubles, as have been stated, but not being there physically is to completely abdicate your responsibility to
    be a force for good for your family; even unarmed you still have your ability to think and act. to be situationally aware.

    investigate a keltek p380 with a slip on holster or a sig 238 with the same.
    either has the same butt print as a thin wallet. till you can resolve carrying with her (if you can...)
    concealed means concealed and unseen is also unspoken.

    on occasion, a unilateral decision is defensible.

    as for your cultural differences, thats a for-sure rocky road.
    Arthritis sucks big-big
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    I come with guns. My wife chose me. I see it like a buy one, get one free deal.
    9MMare likes this.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

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