Colorado CC in Police Station and Municipal Court

Colorado CC in Police Station and Municipal Court

This is a discussion on Colorado CC in Police Station and Municipal Court within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So here's my situation... I work in the IT department of a city in Colorado. The city knows that they legally cannot deny their employees ...

Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Colorado CC in Police Station and Municipal Court

  1. #1
    Member Array logan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Johnstown, CO
    Posts
    212

    Colorado CC in Police Station and Municipal Court

    So here's my situation...

    I work in the IT department of a city in Colorado. The city knows that they legally cannot deny their employees from carrying a gun because they are public buildings and people with a CC permit can legally carry in public buildings. But, our employee handbook states we must receive authorization from the city manager. HR makes us basically keep our supervisors informed that we plan on carrying and then get the city manager to sign off on it. When talking to my supervisor about it, HR told her that there are 2 places I can't carry: the police station and the municipal court.

    So my question to everyone here is...are they right to say that I can't carry in those 2 places? I would have figured the police station would be another public building, and if so I should be able to carry there. There are no signs posted, and they don't have the security (permanent metal detectors or somebody wanding everyone and taking away any firearms at every entrance) as required by Colorado law for a public building to deny concealed firearms. As far as the municipal court goes, as far as I know only federal courts are prohibited. The court also does not meet the requirements of Colorado state law as far as security at the entrances goes to deny concealed firearms here. Only during court do they have a metal detector, and it's only at one entrance.

    Hopefully somebody here knows Colorado law pretty well and can help me out. I've been working for the city for over a year now and did not know until last week that I was able to carry at work. I'm actually pretty excited now because once I can carry here, I'll be able to carry almost 100% of the time. Before, I didn't like the fact of locking my gun in the car all day, so I normally just left it at home. Then I would end up being unarmed from the time I left for work until the time I got home. I always hated that, especially when I would stop somewhere on the way home.

    Thanks in advance for the help!
    Logan - NRA Member

    Walther PPS 9mm, Ruger LCP

    Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable


  2. #2
    Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado at 11,650'
    Posts
    12,733
    Why rock the boat? The two places aren't bad, IMHO. Having said that, your analysis of the PD is correct, but the Court is a different matter since it has the security control. The limitation does not only apply to Federal Courts. To really help, I'd need to know more about the Court and how it is set up in the building. For example, in the Teller County Courthouse in Cripple Creek, there are several entrances. None are secure. There are several County Offices therein. However, access to the upper level which is a Courtroom (not federal) is controlled with permanent security and access is limited to that one point of ingress and egress. Therefore, from a CHL perspective, one can legally carry anywhere in that building not otherwise legally prohibited EXCEPT the Courtroom.

    Welcome, Logan.

  3. #3
    Member Array logan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Johnstown, CO
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Why rock the boat? The two places aren't bad, IMHO. Having said that, your analysis of the PD is correct, but the Court is a different matter since it has the security control. The limitation does not only apply to Federal Courts. To really help, I'd need to know more about the Court and how it is set up in the building. For example, in the Teller County Courthouse in Cripple Creek, there are several entrances. None are secure. There are several County Offices therein. However, access to the upper level which is a Courtroom (not federal) is controlled with permanent security and access is limited to that one point of ingress and egress. Therefore, from a CHL perspective, one can legally carry anywhere in that building not otherwise legally prohibited EXCEPT the Courtroom.

    Welcome, Logan.
    Thanks!

    I would really like to be able to carry at the police department. I don't spend much time there, but I'm there enough that it would be a pain to have to lock my gun up each time I go there. Plus, I don't always go there alone. If I go with somebody else, I don't want to have to reveal to them that I'm carrying when I have to lock my gun up in the glove box. Going there with somebody else is probably my biggest concern, otherwise I think it's a pretty safe place to be unarmed at! I can lock the gun in my car before we leave the IT office, but if I forget, it would be almost impossible to hide it from them when I have to lock it in the glove box.

    The municipal court has one main public entrance with 2 double doors. Behind one of the doors, there is a walk through metal detector. This is only used during court, and at that time there is a police officer standing there. But here's the kicker...the IT office is above the municipal court. The municipal court is the entire first floor, so I have to walk through the public area of the municipal court to walk upstairs to my office. The employee parking lot is in the back and there is a back entrance we come in, which is locked but doesn't have security. So even during court, not all doors are secure (unless doors locked on the outside don't count, but the law says 'all entrances'). So if I come in the back door, there is no security to get to the court room. I think only the court offices and/or the court room were meant to be off limits when they told me that. I don't go to them to often so I don't care too much. I would just have to run outside to my car quick before I do. But if they can't legally keep me from carrying there, it'd be nice to never have to disarm myself. Hope that all makes sense!
    Logan - NRA Member

    Walther PPS 9mm, Ruger LCP

    Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable

  4. #4
    Member Array logan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Johnstown, CO
    Posts
    212
    Oh and I even saw an e-mail from one of our city attorneys (when it was first brought up that somebody wanted to CC while at work) that none of the cities buildings meet the security requirements to keep people with a permit from carrying. So unless she forgot about the municipal court, then she knows the security they have there isn't good enough.
    Logan - NRA Member

    Walther PPS 9mm, Ruger LCP

    Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,441
    Here is a link to all the Colorado STATE laws. 18.12.xxx is the criminal code section of the CRS. Follow the rabbit holes to the referenced statutes.

    Legal Resources

    INAL - in regards to Concealed Carry, individual municipalities can not add restrictions - they must abide by state law on the matter. OC is a whole 'nother game.

    I find it odd that you work in a building chock full of people that know the laws, and you come here to ask.

    I do find it refreshing that they allow you to carry. I just hope it's not special treatment, and they allow anyone with a CC to carry there without hassle.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  6. #6
    Member Array logan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Johnstown, CO
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Here is a link to all the Colorado STATE laws. 18.12.xxx is the criminal code section of the CRS. Follow the rabbit holes to the referenced statutes.

    Legal Resources

    INAL - in regards to Concealed Carry, individual municipalities can not add restrictions - they must abide by state law on the matter. OC is a whole 'nother game.

    I find it odd that you work in a building chock full of people that know the laws, and you come here to ask.

    I do find it refreshing that they allow you to carry. I just hope it's not special treatment, and they allow anyone with a CC to carry there without hassle.
    Anyone with a permit can carry. They just require the city manager to sign off on it. I came here to ask because I'm not happy with the way they interpret the law. They say because there are locked doors that require a code or prox card, that it's a secure area and they can ban concealed weapons. But the law says you must have security with metal detectors at each entrance. So I guess I wanted opinions on that.
    Logan - NRA Member

    Walther PPS 9mm, Ruger LCP

    Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable

  7. #7
    Member Array DocPMD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    241
    Quote Originally Posted by logan View Post
    Anyone with a permit can carry. They just require the city manager to sign off on it. I came here to ask because I'm not happy with the way they interpret the law. They say because there are locked doors that require a code or prox card, that it's a secure area and they can ban concealed weapons. But the law says you must have security with metal detectors at each entrance. So I guess I wanted opinions on that.
    Their interpretation is clearly based upon "public entrances", which does make sense. But if you read the statute, as you already know, it just says "entrances". And we all know that judges have a way of interpreting the law to mean things other than what is written. If you want to be the test case, have at it. Otherwise, seems prudent to just follow their instructions.

  8. #8
    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    360
    “By Law” those two places are not prohibited unless there are security personnel and “electronic weapons screening devices” are permanently in place.

    Most police departments and courts have these because of the high probability of criminals being on-site.

    Here in Broomfield, the Court House and Police Dept. (same building) have a screening device (metal detector) and security at all public entrances and the detention facility has a secured vestibule with individual lockers for handguns inside the front door.

    Beyond that, regardless of whether or not it is legal, if it is in you Employee Handbook you will be held to it as a condition of employment.

  9. #9
    Member Array logan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Johnstown, CO
    Posts
    212
    I'm not going to try to be a test case. I'll stay unarmed in those places as requested. I just wanted to ask here to see if you guys thought I had a good case to speak up and request access to those areas. I'm thankful they are going to let me carry at all!
    Logan - NRA Member

    Walther PPS 9mm, Ruger LCP

    Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    Get one of these to store your gun in,glove compartments can be broken into way too easy,for around $30.00 shipped it's a great investment
    In Car Gun Lockers
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,441
    18.12.214.4

    (4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

    (a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

    (b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

    (c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.
    Does not separate public or "secured". "Each" is pretty evident to me. Any half arsed defense attorney could argue that one and win.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  12. #12
    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    360
    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    18.12.214.4



    Does not separate public or "secured". "Each" is pretty evident to me. Any half arsed defense attorney could argue that one and win.
    The problem is that a Defense Attorney is not going to get you back your job. If you violate the conditions of employment you have no recourse if the fire you.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,441
    OP already covered that it is OK if they get the city manager to sign off on it.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,044
    I am not a city employee, but I went through the same dance with Castle Rock. They had signs that threaten 1 year in jail and 10,000 fine it caught carrying a firearm in the police station, city building, and all city parks. They ignored the state law about fixed security. I took a picture nad sent it to RMGO and they contacted bthe city attorney in my behalf. All the signs were changed to say open carry. RMGO in Colorado CCW'ers best friend, they really come to our defense with a 500lb gorilla.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    So. Central PA
    Posts
    1,822
    Quote Originally Posted by logan View Post
    Anyone with a permit can carry. They just require the city manager to sign off on it. I came here to ask because I'm not happy with the way they interpret the law. They say because there are locked doors that require a code or prox card, that it's a secure area and they can ban concealed weapons. But the law says you must have security with metal detectors at each entrance. So I guess I wanted opinions on that.
    Coming here to get legal opinions because you don't like what you get from the people in charge where you want to carry is not a good plan. Do you think the opinions you get here will be a defense if the powers that be challenge your right to carry in some location? Think again!

    The only place to get data is from the people in charge of the place where you work. If you need a sign off from someone, get it, and get their rules understood. Politely do the inquiries to make sure you understand the rules. Then check with the local powers that be to be sure you understand the rules. Then comply with them.

    If you don't like those opinions/rules and want to challenge them in a law suit and decide to spend your money being a test case, then you need to retain a local attorney who specializes in self defense law. Oh, and bring cash, lots of cash, large bills are acceptable.

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

can i carry a gun in police station colorado

,

ccw in thornton police department

,

colorado can carry a concealed gun in a building that has can't carry sign in colorado

,

colorado carry ccw in police station

,

colorado ccw police stations

,

colorado gun law doesn't apply to municipal courts

,

colorado municipality concealed carry laws

,

conceal carry cripple creek cosinos colorado

,

concealed carry denial colorado defense

,

cripple creek, co concealed carry

,

reason for concealed carry denied colorado

,

reasons for ccw denial in colorado

Click on a term to search for related topics.