Effectiveness of the 380 at 10+ yards

This is a discussion on Effectiveness of the 380 at 10+ yards within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey guys, Recently sold my LC9 to buy a Sig P238; hated the trigger on the LC9, loved the trigger on teh P238. This is ...

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Thread: Effectiveness of the 380 at 10+ yards

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    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
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    Effectiveness of the 380 at 10+ yards

    Hey guys,

    Recently sold my LC9 to buy a Sig P238; hated the trigger on the LC9, loved the trigger on teh P238. This is not a caliber war thread. I have no doubt that in an up close and personal situation, I can draw my p238 and put two or three shots center mass, which with the Buffalo Bore Barnes TAC-XP at 1100 FPS, would stop someone.

    My question is, is the 380 effective at longer than up close and personal ranges. Say for example, I am in a restaurant that serves cheap breakfasts, and I'm seated near the middle of the place (which would be a tactical error on my part, but still). Thugs come in, start wielding guns, pointing them around. Since guns are out, it's a threat, in my mind, so I open fire. Or say, if a mall shooting occured. If I were to open fire from about 12-15 yards, I wonder if the .380 would have enough oomph to still do the same damage as it would at a closer range?

    Just curious to see you guys' thoughts

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    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    IMO if your shot placement was good, it would be effective. If not, well then no....I think you could answer this question with a range trip, to see if you can make accurate shots at the range in question.
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    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    IMO if your shot placement was good, it would be effective. If not, well then no....I think you could answer this question with a range trip, to see if you can make accurate shots at the range in question.
    Agreed, with the smaller guns it's harder to shoot accurately at distance, the Sig P238 makes it a little easier with it's sights, but it still takes some doing on your part.

    As for the caliber's effectiveness at distance.




    Looking at ft/lbs from 0-25 and cutting in half for the 10-15yards (rough estimate) you're looking at around 319 ft/lbs of energy.

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    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
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    JD-

    That's from a 4" barrel, I think
    This is from the 2.75" of the P238:
    eb_27H_1100fps.png

    So I guess I'm looking at 191. That doesn't seem like a whole lot to me, though I don't really know!

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    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    I carried a 380 (Walther PPK/s) as a 2nd/3rd gun for years as a big city cop. I saw many shootings with a 380 acp. The 380 seemed to work about as well as 38 LRN or 9mm ball on people most of the time.

    Just my personal opinion, it is a close range "get off me" gun and should be used sort of like a hand held shotgun.... Empty the thing in the BG from bad breath distance. If that is your only CC weapon, my suggestion is to only use for yourself and family, to intervene with a 380 is asking to be hurt.

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    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP9NewMexico View Post
    JD-

    That's from a 4" barrel, I think
    This is from the 2.75" of the P238:
    eb_27H_1100fps.png

    So I guess I'm looking at 191. That doesn't seem like a whole lot to me, though I don't really know!
    That would be correct.

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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    its the tool not the caliber

    can you effectively put shots on target at distance?
    --shots must be within the area of a fist and
    --random movement by the target is highly probable

    unless tou are an exceptional shooter, past 3 or 4 paces--you are an observer
    unless shots have been fired and its a do or die seituation.

    if you think its likly you will be engaging at more than 21 feet, carry something that you can hit
    1.5 inches at 25 yards with. colt defender, kimber ultra, H&K p7 come to mind.
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    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    I carried a 380 (Walther PPK/s) as a 2nd/3rd gun for years as a big city cop. I saw many shootings with a 380 acp. The 380 seemed to work about as well as 38 LRN or 9mm ball on people most of the time.

    Just my personal opinion, it is a close range "get off me" gun and should be used sort of like a hand held shotgun.... Empty the thing in the BG from bad breath distance. If that is your only CC weapon, my suggestion is to only use for yourself and family, to intervene with a 380 is asking to be hurt.
    Would a 9mm be a better option, because the Sportsman's Warehouse (Cabela's spin-off) has the Solo in stock for $689 and a PM9 for $650, and a PT709 (Taurus) for $450.

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    Member Array Eaglebeak's Avatar
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    Aside from all the effectiveness and accuracy concerns at 12 - 15 yards, I'd practice at a much shorter distance that was more in line with what one would normally encounter in most self-defense situations.

    Except in rare or unusual instances, many judges and juries may have a hard time being convinced that a 36-45 foot range was a "no other options" scenario that justified using lethal self defense force.

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    Encourage the BG's to eat that cheap breakfast you mentioned.......that ought to be worse than a bullet.

    Seriously, I carry a .380 eveyday on the farm, I'm not a big fan of the cartridge, but it and the LCP works as pocket carry for me very well. Going to town or elsewhere, I CCW a G27. How well a .380 would do at distance? I think your outcome would only be speculative, there are so many variables. If the BG's are there to get the cash register drawer, I'd tend to let them go; if they started shooting people, then desperation will kick in and flight or fight will begin.
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    Senior Member Array WoodLark's Avatar
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    If "guns are out", but have not been fired in a situation such as you have described, I would think you are on very shaky ground if you open fire. Especially, God forbid, if you should happen to hit a bystander (which is very possible in that scenario).
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    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    A mouse gun is for last resort measures only............IMO the .380 caliber is just that....an up close and personal, end all, last resort weapon......not a caliber you go to war with.

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    We actually had this discussion several years ago when our Church decided to have an armed security team comprised of Police Officers that attended there. Since Arkansas has a rather stupid limitation of not being able to carry a gun in church, we had to use Police Officers that are exempt from that part of the law.

    Our church is big and it is round. It is over 50 yards from one end to the other. That is a long shot for a handgun.

    Now ask yourself this...

    if you had to shoot to stop a threat that was an active shooter, shooting randomly on the other side of the church, and you were the only one that had a clear shot, would you rather have a full sized handgun or a small,easy to carry handgun that was made with no sights and for close ranges?

    Yeah, I know that most of us are smart enough to prefer a long arm in a gun fight but this is not an option.

    As for me, I carry what I can to meet whatever the possible threat scenario could be. In a shootout, handguns suck,but its all we have. I'd rather not handicap myself.
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    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    We actually had this discussion several years ago when our Church decided to have an armed security team comprised of Police Officers that attended there. Since Arkansas has a rather stupid limitation of not being able to carry a gun in church, we had to use Police Officers that are exempt from that part of the law.

    Our church is big and it is round. It is over 50 yards from one end to the other. That is a long shot for a handgun.

    Now ask yourself this...

    if you had to shoot to stop a threat that was an active shooter, shooting randomly on the other side of the church, and you were the only one that had a clear shot, would you rather have a full sized handgun or a small,easy to carry handgun that was made with no sights and close ranges?

    Yeah, I know that most of us are smart enough to prefer a long arm in a gun fight but this is not an option.

    As for me, I carry what I can to meet whatever the possible threat scenario could be. In a shootout, handguns suck,but its all we have. I'd rather not handicap myself.
    I agree with you, and carry accordingly. However the OP said 12-15 yards. Which IMO is doable with the .380

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    Member Array nhcruffler's Avatar
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    I live near the border of Vt & NH. Not exactly a high crime area yet a few years ago this guy , wearing a mask, walks into a rural bank with a hand gun & shotgun. He fires a 12 ga round into the wall and holds a small group of people hostage for hours before giving up ( mental issues , not a robbery). I keep thinking that I would want the option to be able to take a 40 ft shot effectively as I doubt I would make a very good hostage. That is why I usually carry my 1911. I would not feel confident trying to make that shot with a pocket pistol.

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