Martial artist vs. me

Martial artist vs. me

This is a discussion on Martial artist vs. me within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just a hypothetical situation. If i somehow pissed off someone that i knew was a martial arts badass and he really planned to put the ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array jonathancase's Avatar
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    Martial artist vs. me

    Just a hypothetical situation. If i somehow pissed off someone that i knew was a martial arts badass and he really planned to put the hurt on me, fearing for my wellbeing, would i be justified pulling my firearm and using it if nessessary?


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Now why would you go and do that? One of the worst things a CCL holder can do is get into a fistfight. Since you pissed the guy off and instigated a confrontation, I don't know if pulling the piece is such a good idea.......
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  3. #3
    Member Array Celtic Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathancase View Post
    Just a hypothetical situation. If i somehow pissed off someone that i knew was a martial arts badass and he really planned to put the hurt on me, fearing for my wellbeing, would i be justified pulling my firearm and using it if nessessary?
    You can usually use a firearm if "legally" necessary and "legally" justified. If your asking if you would be legally justified in the jurisdiction that you shot him within, I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole.

  4. #4
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    fearing for my wellbeing
    key words here.

    The big question is....could you articulate to a jury that you were justified in using deadly force on an unarmed man ? I'm thinking that you would have to take a serious azzwhoopin to get away with it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  5. #5
    Member Array jonathancase's Avatar
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    i guess it would differ from state to state, but from what i hear, a trained fighter's hands are concidered a deadly weapon. Maybe i would have to prove he was trying to kill me.

  6. #6
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    Maybe i would have to prove he was trying to kill me.
    Thats EXACTLY what you would have to do...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    Hmmm... interesting points of view.

    I'm glad to know that I can just walk up to a CCW holder, knock him out and take his gun if I'm unarmed. Also good to know that If a CCW holder tells me that I took his seat or something I can get pissed of fat him and beat him up, and there's nothing he can do about it because he started the confrontation by ******* me off.

    IMO any physical confrontation is potentially deadly if you carry a gun, because your opponent can get the gun away from you... and if he didn't know you had one, he will probably find out while you're wrestling around.

    If I can't get out of a fistfight, I'll draw to warn my opponent off... and if that doesn't work and he comes after me with my gun drawn I'll assume that he's trying to kill me and thinks he can... otherwise why would an unarmed assailant close on a man with a drawn gun?
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  8. #8
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    otherwise why would an unarmed assailant close on a man with a drawn gun?
    because he is STUPID?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    If you have a permit and don't know the answer to this you had better talk to a good criminal defense lawyer. Things vary from state to state. I would not bet my life and future on internet advice. Don't swallow the BS about a trained fighters hands either unless you hear that from a good lawyer either. Most lawyers worth their pay will give you 15 minutes on the phone for free and it just might keep you out of jail.

    In FL if you were facing a bloody nose and bruises and shot you would be in jail a long, long time. If you were facing broken bones or death you could defend yourself. Problem is it will be the decision of police, DA, judge and jury wether the threat was that serious, can you convince them? Truth is us good guys have to exist in a very, very narrow set of rules to be legal. Criminals don't have such problems.....
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
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    Train to to defend yourself without using a firearm....
    Lethal force is the last resort....
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathancase View Post
    Just a hypothetical situation. If i somehow pissed off someone that i knew was a martial arts badass.............
    Why in the world would you want to do that? If this person really is a "badass", they are not a martial artist, they are just a thug who has been trained in a particular style. Martial arts comprise the whole person, that is why discipline is strongly empasized in Martial Arts training. Being a part time Kenpo instructor I can tell you that first hand.

    Oh and by the way, we also train to disarm people, so if you ever were close enough to justify pulling a pistol you had better be good, you most likely won't get another chance.
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

    The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

  12. #12
    Member Array Leadslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathancase View Post
    Just a hypothetical situation. If i somehow pissed off someone that i knew was a martial arts badass and he really planned to put the hurt on me, fearing for my wellbeing, would i be justified pulling my firearm and using it if nessessary?


    NO



    Not to be a smartass but there is more to self defense than carrying a gun.
    Maybe some of the posters that are so worried about an unarmed opponent need to seriously look at less than lethal weapons and/or an UN-armed self defense course.

    Just my 2 cents



    A LTTLE TRAINING IS A DANGEROUS THING ....

  13. #13
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    You won't get the chance

    Quote Originally Posted by jonathancase View Post
    Just a hypothetical situation. If i somehow pissed off someone that i knew was a martial arts badass and he really planned to put the hurt on me, fearing for my wellbeing, would i be justified pulling my firearm and using it if nessessary?
    If your oponent is really "a marital arts badass" you won't even get a chance to draw.

    BUT--
    Most really truly (no bull) black belts (in more than one art) are so disciplined that they are quiet folk who are not what you would call a badass. Furthermore, the really good ones control the amount and quality of force used, that is, they can inflict a lot of pain without actually breaking anything; and they can kill you before you know what is happening.

    So, I think your hyothetical is off base. Most of us need to worry about the undisciplined slothful BG, not the disciplined martial artists.

    (Not that the undisciplined BG can't hurt you really badly with bare hands if he is strong and in a rage. )

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    For sake of argument.....

    If you told this "martial arts badass" that his mom was a snowblower or something stupid like that and he was going to "kill you you stupid little twerp!"....

    And knowing without a doubt that he was a "martial arts badass" and could kill you with one fatal blow...

    And you absolutely feared for your life and had the opportunity to draw and fire before being stricken down by the hand of death....

    You *would* be justified in using deadly force under the umbrella of Disparity of Force.

    The following is a quote from David Kenik's book, "Armed Response":

    " Disparity of Force may be found to exist if it is known to the victim that the attacker has knowledge of specialized fighting skills such as martial arts, boxing, military training in hand-to-hand combat, etc. This assumses that the victim does not have equivalent fighting skills and that the victim is aware of the attacker's knowledge at the time of the altercation...."

    If you do not posses the same "martial arts badass" capability of your attacker, with your absolute knowledge of the fact that he is the "martial arts badass", you can reasonably articulate that your attacker has the means to inflict deadly harm against you even though he does not posses a "deadly weapon" other than his own hands or feet.

    Now, this is certainly not cut and dry. Had you shot this so called attacker, you would still find yourself in the unenveiable position of having to prove in court that you were under deadly attack.

    "Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6"....
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    Don't shoot the martial artist. In fact, if you are afraid of the guy, avoid contact with him. I think anytime you kill or mame an unarmed man, you will have a more difficult defense.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

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