Do you intend to win?

Do you intend to win?

This is a discussion on Do you intend to win? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Concealed carry has a very important mental component that requires some discussion. I don't have all the answers, but here's what I have to offer ...

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Thread: Do you intend to win?

  1. #1
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    Array Rob Longenecker's Avatar
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    Do you intend to win?

    Concealed carry has a very important mental component that requires some discussion. I don't have all the answers, but here's what I have to offer at the moment. I'd be glad to hear your thoughts.

    Jeff Cooper gave us the color codes for mental awareness from condition white (unaware and oblivious), through yellow (aware of our surroundings), orange (identifying a potential specific threat) to red (fight). There's something more fundamental, something that comes first, giving context to the whole issue of self-defense. Do you intend to win?

    Deciding what you'll do ahead of time in different situations makes good sense. Beyond that, do you intend to win?
    Here's a conversation starter:

    http://tinyurl.com/fa4th


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Really good article Rob and very to the point! I might add that to mindset and training we must all add knowledge. I am learning that many people who have undergone the application and permit process still have a lack of true understanding what they can legally do in defense. Considering that it is a life and death issue and may well involve our future in or out of a jail cell, not to mention all our finances, I find it suprising.

    I tire of hearing the old adage "I'd rather be tried by twelve than buried by six". Truth is if we had trained better and discovered what the law really is and not what we hope it is we stand a great chance of never getting to that point!! If we are facing a jury then our intentions won't matter and our ignorance of the law won't matter. If our actions broke the law guess where we'll be spending much of our future? When discussing some facets of the new laws here in FL the lawyers comment when I said "Wow, I didn't think that could be under the new laws" was "Yup, sucks dosn't it!" But the good news here is that things are mostly looking more in our favor.

    OK, I'll get back down from my soap box now. Back to the mindset idea and you are very right. In my younger days as a martial artist one of the best teachers I ever had told me that I had all the skills I needed, now it was all about honing them finer and what went on in my head to be the winner in any fight. His arguement (and it made him a national champion) was to not worry about adding more and more techniques but to develop a good basic set of skills that one can perform well and then hone them to perfection. Add to that good mental discipline and determination to succeed and you have a winning combination. It seems to apply to armed self defense as well.
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    OK,what the hell,I'll say it.

    I feel that >80% of the CC permit holders in the U.S. are NOT anywhere near prepared for what they will encounter during a major confrontation, much less actually pulling the trigger.

    The incoming question will be........how could anyone ever be as prepared as they should be ?? The only answer that I can give is >>>>thru experience, training, and mental attitude (your beliefs), you can predict how you will perform in the really bad situations. I know this to be a fact.

    Some of the kindest sweetest people in the world make the worst fighters unless they can completely transform themselves at the drop of a hat.
    When you know you're right you can't take pity on anybody or anything.
    You gotta be willing to do what you gotta do,TO WIN.
    You can't let "your love for your fellow man" and all that stuff, get in your way of winning.

    I don't profess to know it all but, I do know myself. And I am entitled to my beliefs.
    This is what I believe to be true.--------

  4. #4
    Member Array DizTbone's Avatar
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    Good write up... Here are some of my reflections:

    I used to work in outside sales. I wasn't particularly successful. I had the skills...product knowledge, communications, etc... What I lacked can be summed up by what one of my managers used to tell me, "You are just a wife and two kids away from being a superstar." HUH? Oh...been married for five years, now. I get it.

    What I lacked was determination...determination to the level that it would drive me through my fears and out of my comfort zone...into that area where growing pains lead to greater skill, better application of effort, and realization of goals. I needed an overwhelming responsibility and no option but success.

    I remember learning about that in sports. Once upon a time, I could out-rebound and effectively guard players much taller than I am. Why? The coach demanded results for the playing time he allowed us. Wanna play? Good. Get the job done. Interesting how I didn't transfer that to my work.

    The funny thing, to me at least, is that we live in a world filled with sports and military heroes. All of these "heroes" have pushed themselves faster and farther than their peers. Yet, much of our society seems engineered to produce mediocrity. Try excelling at work. Will you become the office pariah? Try excelling in school. I know for a fact that your star will fall...among most of your peers.

    I think I'm doing better on the mindset training than the skills training. I guess my level of committment in the future will be measured by whether or not I invest in more skills training, too.

    Oh... some family and friends think that I go a little overboard...especially with respect to awareness and defense. [Mind you, I don't talk about it much...even then it is with a selective few.] I put them in the same category with my peers at school or work who were jealous because they wanted to have results and be lazy. I like them...I just don't listen to them. Their words are seductive poison...

    On a related topic, I went to Tulsa last week for a work-related retreat. The group was hosted by a large church in south Tulsa. This church hired a retired TPD officer to do security. My peers were aghast that anyone would allow a weapon (even carried by a police officer!!!) into a church. Well, folks...Tulsa isn't rural Arkansas. It's the land where 12-year-olds kill cops to make their bones and car theives are gone in less than 30 seconds...and 16-year-olds are already career criminals...and churches are easy targets. Well...paying attention to things that will help avoid becoming a vicitm is, to me, a sign of the strong intention to live...not a sign of hatred. In the Christian tradition, martyrs weren't killed at the hands of common criminals, but at the hands of persecuting governments. My peers seem to be enjoying their sojourn in the middle of a river in Egypt.

    Michael
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    Rifles...yes...and shotguns....and
    "Unofficial Legislative Attache...er...Watchdog...er...Agitator."
    "Yes, I vote...but not for the candidate I prefer: None of the Above."

  5. #5
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    I have given much thought to mindset since carrying and there can only be one answer to "Do you intend to win?" - if we are to prevail - yes indeed. I seriously doubt a lot of folks actually do have that in mind - more they carry a hope that ''things will work out''.

    I would in part exploit my anger at being threatened and direct that into the win mindset - and that is win by any and every means. Without the anger then I think resolve can be weakened.

    No one half wins - it is win or lose for most part - no compromize. Despite mindset and practice and training however - I doubt many will actually know for sure if they can throw the ''win switch'' if things get down and dirty.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Yes, I intend to win. Thru proper training and mindset, I can and will fight till I win. By assessing situations and options before they happen , I have a plan of action.
    I do agree most CCW holders just figure , well I have a gun, it will save me.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Member Array Blackhawk6's Avatar
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    Good article, Rob! I could not agree more that skill, without the will to use it, is worthless.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    I do agree most CCW holders just figure , well I have a gun, it will save me.
    So sad, but so true...

  8. #8
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    Security Blanket Syndrome.

    Only in RARE instances will totally inexperienced gun owners get lucky and come out on top of a life or death self~defensive situation.

    I'm not willing to trust my precious bacon to Lady Luck & Madame Fate so I train myself to hopefully be better than the bad guy.

    We all have a responsibility Not Only To Ourselves but, to innocents around us to become at least decently "real life trained" with our personal carry firearm.

    We may be called upon to defend life and limb with innocents and family members in the vicinity.

    We owe it to society as well as to ourselves to become as effective and as accomplished as is practically possible.

    It is WISE to remember that we will never get to choose the scenario in advance where we may find ourselves in deadly peril.

    Things will never be exactly as we imagine they might be.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  9. #9
    Member Array jongle's Avatar
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    Back when I was a baby lawyer, and actually tried criminal cases, I had a client who swore to kill me and the judge. LE urged me to get a CCW, which I did. But before I did, I asked the LEO, "What do I pay taxes for? This is YOUR job!"

    His simple response rocked my boat: "John, what time do you walk your dog?" (Small town -- folks knew about the hound)

    I had small boys and a wife undergoing chemotherapy ( still on the planet, she is, thank God).

    I literally sat up all night thinking on this issue.

    And from that day to right now, I am mentally set (the hard part, believe thee me) to put "two in the body and one in the head".

    Because to me, the essence of "self defence" is my right to live until the Man calls me home, as opposed to some idiot's idea that life and death is HIS decision.

    It ain't!!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    If someone doesn't intend to win, they shouldn't bother picking up a permit in the first place. I don't intend to do anything, I go and do it. I improvise, I adapt, and I overcome. I've done it all my life and certianly will not do anyting different if faced with a life-threatening situation. I won't intend to win, I will win, period. If there's no way to win, I'll find a way. My wife and kids deserve that of me.

    It may sound corny and in a way it most certainly is, but this thread reminds me of a part from the movie "Top Gun" where everyone is sitting in the ready room the first time and Viper says this to the assmebled pilots...

    "Gentlemen this school is about combat. There are no points for second place."

    If you're ever faced with a life-threatening situation, there will most likely be a winner and a loser. Don't be the loser! There are no points for second place!
    Last edited by gddyup; August 28th, 2006 at 08:37 PM.
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gddyup View Post
    If you don't intend to win, you shouldn't have picked up that permit in the first place. I don't intend to do anything, I go and do it. I improvise, I adapt, and I overcome. I've done it all my life and certianly will not do anyting different if faced with a life-threatening situation. I won't intend to win, I will win, period. If there's no way to win, I'll find a way. My wife and kids deserve that of me.

    It may sound corny and in a way it most certainly is, but this thread reminds me of a part from the movie "Top Gun" where everyone is sitting in the ready room the first time and Viper says this to the assmebled pilots...

    "Gentlemen this school is about combat. There are no points for second place."

    If you're ever faced with a life-threatening situation, there will most likely be a winner and a loser. Don't be the loser! There are no points for second place!
    It's interesting that Top Gun was quoted. My training as a Naval Aviator, Naval Flight Instructor and A7 attack pilot during the late '60's and early 70's played a part in my writing the post that I did. (I had 2,000 flight hours and over 300 carrier landings.)

    I learned about intentionality during that experience. I go back to the reference to Tiger Woods at the beginning of my post. In addition to his skills and abilities he clearly has the intention to win. I was pointing to that and inviting an inquiry into the nature of intention as it applies to self-defense.

    Many people go through life on "auto pilot" thinking they are being intentional. The survival instinct is automatic. Preparation and intention are not.

    Nothing I said really called for any argument. It was simply a distinction to cause discussion. It did that. Did anyone come away with anything they didn't already know? I enjoyed learning from other points of view.

    "What's in the way of personal growth is not what we don't know - It's what we already know that limits us."

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Longenecker View Post
    It's interesting that Top Gun was quoted. My training as a Naval Aviator, Naval Flight Instructor and A7 attack pilot during the late '60's and early 70's played a part in my writing the post that I did. (I had 2,000 flight hours and over 300 carrier landings.)

    I learned about intentionality during that experience. I go back to the reference to Tiger Woods at the beginning of my post. In addition to his skills and abilities he clearly has the intention to win. I was pointing to that and inviting an inquiry into the nature of intention as it applies to self-defense.

    Many people go through life on "auto pilot" thinking they are being intentional. The survival instinct is automatic. Preparation and intention are not.

    Nothing I said really called for any argument. It was simply a distinction to cause discussion. It did that. Did anyone come away with anything they didn't already know? I enjoyed learning from other points of view.

    "What's in the way of personal growth is not what we don't know - It's what we already know that limits us."
    Rob, that wasn't targetted at you personally. It was meant as people in general who decide to get a CCW should always have a mindset to win. Not pointing at you personally. Your link had some great info and provokes some serious thought on where your mindset should be if you decide it's your responsibility to defend yourself.

    I'll edit the language a bit in my first post so that it reflects more of a general purpose meaning instead of how it's worded now. Thanks you for pointing it out to me.
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  13. #13
    Member Array PolarBear's Avatar
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    Just "intending to win" is only part of it, you must also prepare.

    Something as simple as being a member of this forum is more of a benefit than a lot of members may realize. By talking and thinking about past incidents, or the "what would you do" threads is in fact helping mentally prepare all of us. Also, as I go through the day, I often ask myself "ok where is good cover?" or "what would I do if x happened right now?". These thoughts and online discussions, plus hands on training like what you get at the range or in your CCW class, are what condition our responses.

    In a "life and death" situation, most times you will NOT have time to think, you will just respond. If you "intend to win" and train to "condition your responses", then your response will be much more effective and you will be far more likely to come out on top.
    "Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud..."
    -Jeff Cooper, "The Art of the Rifle"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by gddyup View Post
    Rob, that wasn't targetted at you personally.
    We're cool.

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    Fantastic thread! The "Will to Win" is what may well decide. The "Will to Win" is probably the most important point in the entire exercise!

    The PGA Tour, as a group, are probably ONLY 2 or 3 strokes APART over the entire year. Physically and mechanically they are thus ALMOST IDENTICAL. Why then, do one or two or three, four or five players almost always end up on top at each year end?

    The "Will to Win"


    May none of us ever be without..................


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

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